Southwest Crawlfest... what went wrong?

[kmboren]

The land use raffle really is the elephant in the room: it comes down to this-- either that money was turned over to some land-use group we haven't heard from, or:

at best-- SWCF mislead registrants and vendors

at worst-- SWCF lied, broke UT law, and used U4, USA-ALL, and BRC.


Really wish there were some answers. The more time goes by the more it looks like someone's using that time to try and cover their tracks.

Based on his silence I would guess it is your last option. He is probaly waiting for the whole thing to blow over. Great he had some help figuring out the $15 donations. If he does get the money to the orinaztions for those it is still a small amount compared to what the Raffle brought in. Since we do not have numbers on that raffle we can only assume but my conservative guess is he had $5000+ dollars in "Donations" for raffle tickets. Man I can only guess how much that would help the clubs fighting for the cause to keep trails open.

 

[kmboren]

SWCF is not dead;

Actually it may be. At least in southern utah. You stated that people are trying to take steve down. People don't have to because he is doing it to himself. Two years in a row he has made the BLM upset. Do you really think they will allow him to have another event in southern Utah again. Or for that manner anywhere in utah since according to Tacoma they do talk to each other. If Steve Crabtree is involved I am afraid they will not give him the time of day. He has single handedly hurt the ruputation of the Off-road community in southern utah and the BLM. We are lucky enough that there was another event held there that is in good standing with the BLM or the off-roading community may have lost events in the St. George area forever. Cudous to the other clubs and there event.

 

[CJ Matt]

I did not attend this years event but did make last years and had a great time. It is sad to see what happened this year and I hope it does not kill SWCF for the future.

 

[fullsizeyota]

I did not attend this years event but did make last years and had a great time. It is sad to see what happened this year and I hope it does not kill SWCF for the future.

Good Lord. This is a perfect example of why steve continues to get away with what he does. He has a three year track record of questionable-at-best behavior for swcf alone. Not to mention the crap we endure the other part of the year.

He has pisses off vendors and the blm, we have documentation from the blm and you have the guts to say you hope it continues? Are you high?

In my eyes he further incriminated himself at 12:00 am friday morning.

This do-nothing better luck next time attitude is why we are where we are at politically as a whole and why the enviros are shutting us down

I don'tknow you personally but your comment is absurd.

 

[CJ Matt]

Good Lord. This is a perfect example of why steve continues to get away with what he does. He has a three year track record of questionable-at-best behavior for swcf alone. Not to mention the crap we endure the other part of the year.

He has pisses off vendors and the blm, we have documentation from the blm and you have the guts to say you hope it continues? Are you high?

In my eyes he further incriminated himself at 12:00 am friday morning.

This do-nothing better luck next time attitude is why we are where we are at politically as a whole and why the enviros are shutting us down

I don'tknow you personally but your comment is absurd.

Relax a little. I did not say I wanted him to run it and I did not support him nor will I. Don't read more into what I said and go on a tangent. I, along with many others have had some fun at the event. It would be nice to see it or something similar continued with different management and maybe a different name. I would prefer that then to see it disappear all together.

Don't put the blame on me or others for what happened this year and in the past. I don't remember hearing anything from last year and if so many people new about it something than should have been done. Did you know about it all before this year? Did you do or say anything about it?

You are right about one thing. You don't know me.

 

[SAMI]

The emotions need to chillax.. Atleast 2 notches down.

 

[CJ Matt]

The emotions need to chillax.. Atleast 2 notches down.

Or atleast make sure they are directed to the right people.

 

[brokendownyj]

What the crap? what event did we host last weekend? Why do SC follows keep saying they wish there could still be a similar event? Wake up CrawlFest was a roost for putting money in someone's personal account.
There is an event every year in Saint George maybe you have heard of it, It's called WINTER ON THE ROCKS! anyone.

Relax a little. I did not say I wanted him to run it and I did not support him nor will I. Don't read more into what I said and go on a tangent. I, along with many others have had some fun at the event. It would be nice to see it or something similar continued with different management and maybe a different name. I would prefer that then to see it disappear all together.

Don't put the blame on me or others for what happened this year and in the past. I don't remember hearing anything from last year and if so many people new about it something than should have been done. Did you know about it all before this year? Did you do or say anything about it?

You are right about one thing. You don't know me.

 

[rockreligious]

Relax a little. I did not say I wanted him to run it and I did not support him nor will I. Don't read more into what I said and go on a tangent. I, along with many others have had some fun at the event. It would be nice to see it or something similar continued with different management and maybe a different name. I would prefer that then to see it disappear all together.

Don't put the blame on me or others for what happened this year and in the past. I don't remember hearing anything from last year and if so many people new about it something than should have been done. Did you know about it all before this year? Did you do or say anything about it?

You are right about one thing. You don't know me.

I agree Matt, Ive wheeled with most everyone who has posted on this thread over the years, and have enjoyed the company. there are a few on here who have all this insight on SWCF and Steve and act as if they knew this was going to happen, and just waited for the train wreck, rather than warn of accountability in the begining....Im sure if SWCF is dead then WOTR will grow and continue and that is a good thing, but dont let this poisen wheeling in the south by blaming this train wreck on innocent guys just hopeing that there will be future offroad events in the south.

 

[1995zj]

It would be nice to see it or something similar continued with different management and maybe a different name. I would prefer that then to see it disappear all together.

Winter on the Rocks already happens......? Isn't that pretty similar?

 

[1\4elliptic toy]

I gotta say, this does not surprise me at all, I have seen first hand the crooked dealing's that steve is responsible for. I have some simple questions, Why has steve not got on here to defend his actions? because he is afraid that he will get "piled on"? IF he has nothing to hide and his event is 100% legit then I ask again, why has he not made a SINGLE REPLY to this thread? Would anyone of you that put on an event and had nothing to hide let this go on if it was you? The 4x4 community needs strong organizers with high moral and legal standards, not sub standard (at best) management skills.

Be real here people, this guy is in charge of YOUR donations STILL to this very second, he is the ONLY one that knows anything about ALL of the monies, I assume he will keep it that way too.

So lets say that I never started the thread that got deleted (because of legal threats from steve instead of clarification on his end) Do you guys think he really would have ever come forward with any numbers? Hell, he has got nothing to say and we are all OBVIOUSLY waiting to find out where OUR money went. SWCF IS DEAD, at least it should be, How many of you want to support an event that screwed everyone of us? Did you guys read the letter from the BLM, HELLO, ITS FROM THE BLM!!! How much more proof do you need? THE BLM RANGERS WERE WAITING to turn back last years groups BECAUSE steve DID NOT DO THINGS THROUGH LEGAL CHANNELS! aside from the fact that there is thousands of dollars in missing raffle money as well as missing membership fees, remember the cash registration that Stratton made? the one that Russ said was not ever accounted for? How many other were there? how many of you signed up the day of the event and paid cash? Jesus, where will this shit end? You are all smart reasonable people right? You can make an educated decision for yourself right? It will end with the death of SWSF YES SWSF figure it out for yourself.

 

[Jesser04]

I gotta say, this does not surprise me at all, I have seen first hand the crooked dealing's that steve is responsible for. I have some simple questions, Why has steve not got on here to defend his actions? because he is afraid that he will get "piled on"? IF he has nothing to hide and his event is 100% legit then I ask again, why has he not made a SINGLE REPLY to this thread? Would anyone of you that put on an event and had nothing to hide let this go on if it was you? The 4x4 community needs strong organizers with high moral and legal standards, not sub standard (at best) management skills.

Be real here people, this guy is in charge of YOUR donations STILL to this very second, he is the ONLY one that knows anything about ALL of the monies, I assume he will keep it that way too.

So lets say that I never started the thread that got deleted (because of legal threats from steve instead of clarification on his end) Do you guys think he really would have ever come forward with any numbers? Hell, he has got nothing to say and we are all OBVIOUSLY waiting to find out where OUR money went. SWCF IS DEAD, at least it should be, How many of you want to support an event that screwed everyone of us? Did you guys read the letter from the BLM, HELLO, ITS FROM THE BLM!!! How much more proof do you need? THE BLM RANGERS WERE WAITING to turn back last years groups BECAUSE steve DID NOT DO THINGS THROUGH LEGAL CHANNELS! aside from the fact that there is thousands of dollars in missing raffle money as well as missing membership fees, remember the cash registration that Stratton made? the one that Russ said was not ever accounted for? How many other were there? how many of you signed up the day of the event and paid cash? Jesus, where will this shit end? You are all smart reasonable people right? You can make an educated decision for yourself right? It will end with the death of SWSF YES SWSF figure it out for yourself.

In the name of Jesus Christ amen

 

[SAMI]

In the name of Jesus Christ amen

 

[CJ Matt]

Winter on the Rocks already happens......? Isn't that pretty similar?

If it is similar then good. I don't keep track of every event and when and where they take place.

 

[sixstringsteve]

there are a few on here who have all this insight on SWCF and Steve and act as if they knew this was going to happen, and just waited for the train wreck, rather than warn of accountability in the begining.

I was warned by one or two people (I'll bet you can guess who by reading this thread). I had never met them, but they sent me a PM warning me very strongly that this sort of thing would happen (perhaps too strongly for me to feel persuaded). Shame on me for not taking them more seriously. I think the message was so strong and harsh and incriminating towards Steve that I thought "there's no way it's that bad, it just sounds like bad blood between two people." So I dismissed it. I think it's safe to say that this thread is raising awareness to that fact.

 

[Don B]

I was warned by one or two people (I'll bet you can guess who by reading this thread). I had never met them, but they sent me a PM warning me very strongly that this sort of thing would happen (perhaps too strongly for me to feel persuaded). Shame on me for not taking them more seriously. I think the message was so strong and harsh and incriminating towards Steve that I thought "there's no way it's that bad, it just sounds like bad blood between two people." So I dismissed it. I think it's safe to say that this thread is raising awareness to that fact.

That has been a lot of the problem. When someone gets on a forum and starts saying something about that person, they are accused of making unfounded personal attacks and it goes nowhere.

Look back through this thread and you can see it still goes on. People don't want to believe what goes on.

 

[Don B]

I hate to see WOTR brought up on this thread. WOTR will grow and prosper on it's own merits and has nothing at all to do with SWCF.

I also hate to see SWCF used interchangebly with the "Event Chairman" EC as I will refer to the person. SWCF was an event, even though the EC saw it as his alter ego, there were other people involved. I know there were people helping 2010 & 2011 who are all good people that would never engage in anything improper. I don't want to see anyone else defamed because of one persons actions.

 

[Robert T]

I was really waiting to see what Steve had to say about it, its to bad he is doing this to everyone of us. I ask the members of U4 and all the club members down St. George and surrounding areas to get ahold of the BLM and let them know that he does not represent the sport and show them that we do care about the area and try to make a good thing out of a bad disaster. Maybe they will have a better outlook on the rest of us and allow more events that are better directed to take place.

 

[Don B]

I was really waiting to see what Steve had to say about it, its to bad he is doing this to everyone of us. I ask the members of U4 and all the club members down St. George and surrounding areas to get ahold of the BLM and let them know that he does not represent the sport and show them that we do care about the area and try to make a good thing out of a bad disaster. Maybe they will have a better outlook on the rest of us and allow more events that are better directed to take place.

Done.

The rest of the 4x4 community in the area continue to work with the BLM and they know who is who.

 

[TRNDRVR]

At the very least, any vendor/organization who either donated goods and/or was promised donations under the guise of 'land use' initiatives, it's time to call the Washington County Sheriff's Office and get a case number going on this. Once a case number is established, it needs to be posted and every private donation/participant needs to call and chime in on said WCSO case number and help build a criminal case against Mr. Crabtree. Just for good measure I would also add Mr. (insert real name here) rholbrook's name in the complaint too seeing he has claimed his participation in the accounting aspect of this debacle and has also appeared to be Mr. Crabtree's 'proclaimed' spokesman.

As far as Dave Kiel, BLM's Outdoor Recreation Planner, you can take this to the federal level. More then likely if a local sheriff's office has an ongoing investigation in the matter, I'm sure the feds will let the local investigation run its course. I would assume though under a very watchful eye. Again I would assume the feds would only step in if they could see a bigger fish to fry.

Now, as for other events that have been named in this thread, and others that haven't, this has blackened the eyes of everybody who puts on 'events' on any land. I'm talking all the way down from your daughter's 4H dog and pony show to the Mormon pioneer settler's push cart re-enactment. Everybody will be affected. I highly doubt that the BLM has permit forms for every different event held by every different organization that asks for one. I'm sure it's what I would call a 'blanket' permit form with only the spaces needing to be filled in. I'm sure this form/procedure at the very least is being scrutinized by people higher up then us as to see this doesn't happen in the future. I can only imagine all the good intelligence SUWA is gleaning from this as well.

Mr. Crabtree has made promises all the way from monetary donations to land use organizations to giving dates as to when he would chime in and explain all of this obvious misunderstanding. Promises that haven't been kept.

As stated before, I didn't attend this event so I don't really have a dog in this fight. I may be an ass, but I'm not always a dumb ass. Reality is that laws have been broke and crimes have been committed. Somebody needs to man up and get the legal ball rolling if it hasn't done already.

Good luck to all parties involved!!!