Southwest Crawlfest... what went wrong?

[TRNDRVR]

I would leave Russ out of this, as he was just another person con'd by Steve Crabtree and decided to help out after buying Steve's sob story. I personally will vouch for Russ as a stand up guy, he was trying to help after being asked by Steve.

X2 Russ is a quality guy.

Russ was not involved with any accounting for the event. He cleaned up the registration database and correlated it with the paypal report. The big issue here is not the registrations, it is the raffle money, which he had nothing to do with.

I'll read back through and see where he admits to being conned by Mr. Crabtree and he retracts all the negative he spoke towards others here on RME on behalf of Mr. Crabtree. I must have missed it.


Looking looking......


Stupid personal comparison....My BIL stole my wife's credit cards and got me into a world of financial hurt. In order to get out of the trouble he got me into I had to hire an attorney and file a police report. Once that report was filed, just by the nature of the crime, at that point it was out of my hands and he was prosecuted and convicted. I never once had to go to court on my behalf. Prosecuting attorney's office had that ball and ran with it. I just sat back and watched as the events unfolded. Basically what I am saying is probably on our part the only thing we need to do is file the report, the sheriff's office will do the rest. I would say I do have just a little knowledge of what's going on here criminally. Not an expert, but some experience.

 

[fullsizeyota]

TRNDRVR: I spoke to someone a little more versed in things legal, they told me something similar to what you just said. They mentioned to me that this person (steve) may have other things against him, completely un-related to SWCF eg: giving stolen property to KC a few years ago.

Some case may already lay dormant that we as a 4x4 community have no idea about, maybe a sour real estate deal or something along those lines, this may be the snow flake that starts the avalanche.

Intresting for sure. Hey that reminds me, anyone ever read the Charlie Wenzel thread on Pirate? I hope steve reads this prompting, it'd be a good read for him too.

 

[mesha]

I would be willing to pitch in the "pay the BLM" pot. I do like the idea of making a donation in the amount of the bill, but not paying the bill, as long as the BLM knows what we are doing and can accept that as "payment" without paying the actual bill.

Now that I think about it, I don't really care I would donate to pay the actual bill as well. I would like to put the BLM side of this out of the equation and let the rest of it work itself out. I didn't attend and have lost nothing in this, but I worry about any trails getting shut down. I love the st. george trails and don't want to see them go.

 

[Cody]

I'll read back through and see where he admits to being conned by Mr. Crabtree and he retracts all the negative he spoke towards others here on RME on behalf of Mr. Crabtree. I must have missed it.


Looking looking......

looking...looking...for your dog in this fight.

What criminal act did Russ commit that would warrant you to include him "for good measure"?

From what I read, and perhaps my comprehension is at a more elementary level than your own, Russ stepped in to try and help the situation after the fact. Does that make him a criminal party? Is he not allowed to make his own judgments of a person's character?

Russ was convinced by Steve that everyone was attacking him, and Russ posted his thoughts on the matter. Was that criminal? He also called some people out, then later retracted and apologized when more information was brought forth. Again, criminal?


looking....looking....for why "good measure" is enough, in your opinion, to bring criminal charges to an individual that you seem to know nothing about (russ), in regards to his participation in an event you were not involved with, on an issue that you really seem to have no place in (nor do I--but I haven't pointed fingers at anyone either). Do you just casually throw around lawsuits like they are halloween candy whenever you see perceived injustice in the world? Are you the singular Three Amigos of the offroad world? I see how you were screwed by someone in your family, and your insight into that is useful (and may prove more useful), but I don't see why you are the driving force behind escalation especially in regards to an individual who was merely attempting to help sort things out.

The last thing I want to see happen is to have a can of worms opened on the Federal BLM level that we can't do anything about.

 

[TRNDRVR]

I'll read back through and see where he admits to being conned by Mr. Crabtree and he retracts all the negative he spoke towards others here on RME on behalf of Mr. Crabtree.

Go back and read his previous post where he slams some people here on RME.

I stand by my above quoted post.

What criminal act did Russ commit that would warrant you to include him "for good measure"?

Knowledge after the fact(?) I really don't know what position the sheriff's department would put him in. Unfortunately he put himself in a spotlight of knowledge/suspicion. If this comes to the point of criminal investigation I can't help but think that Russ would at least be questioned in regards to whatever information he may or may not know. Really, how could he not be?

Honestly, (russ) my sincere hope is he in fact did get duped and he steps back and acknowledges it.

Do you just casually throw around lawsuits like they are halloween candy whenever you see perceived injustice in the world?

No I don't, nor have I suggested so in this thread. The premise of all my comments are criminal related. If in fact a crime has been committed, determined by the proper law enforcement agency, those who committed them should suffer the consequences.



As for the "lets pay the BLM fee" donation pot, I advise against doing it because in the end the only one that really wins by doing that is the perpetrator of topic.

 

[anderson750]

Go back and read his previous post where he slams some people here on RME.

I was one of those people and I have talked to Russ through PM and your thought on this is completely wrong. This thread is starting to go in the wrong direction and is probably getting close to being closed. Keep it on track.

 

[TRNDRVR]

I was one of those people and I have talked to Russ through PM and your thought on this is completely wrong.

Well then, I apologize to Russ and all on RME. I personally don't know the guy at all, so I can't be any type of judge to his character. I can only conclude from the information gleaned from this thread.

Although I admit I have no dog in this particular fight, we all have been harmed by this in one way or another. I, just like everybody else in this sport, have a right to post their thoughts in this thread.

 

[SAMI]

Although I admit I have no dog in this particular fight, we all have been harmed by this in one way or another. I, just like everybody else in this sport, have a right to post their thoughts in this thread.

I do agree with ya.

 

[Caleb]

Just for good measure I would also add Mr. (insert real name here) rholbrook's name in the complaint too seeing he has claimed his participation in the accounting aspect of this debacle and has also appeared to be Mr. Crabtree's 'proclaimed' spokesman.

Ya know, I've never really thought too highly of you, but the fact that you would even suggest to include Russ completely solidifies my thoughts. You guys (yes, this includes you, that has "no dog" in this fight) have started this thread looking for "facts". Russ gave you WHAT HE KNEW. He worked with Steve trying to straighten membership numbers out, he called out a few guys, and has apologized for things he was later corrected on. At what point did he become a willing participant in ANY crime? For good measure you should probably be included too...let the Sheriff's department decide if you should be included or not

Russ is the type of guy that would bend over backwards to help ANYONE. I bet if you needed help Trndrvr, I don't doubt for a second he would still bend over backwards to help you out. He's the type of person that doesn't care if you're not the popular choice, if he thinks he may be able to help you, he'll do his best.

IMO, there's very little good this thread is doing. It's become a witch hunt (just like the last two or three threads) with a lot of finger pointing and very little fact. IMO, it would be in Greg and Shane's best interest to close this thread and not bring it up again. I think it's looking poorly on RME and the 4wd community as a whole.

 

[SLC97SR5]

I want Steve to make this right, I'm sure his credibility is beyond wasted at this point but personally I want to believe that I was not taken (along with my cash) and that there is some valid explanation to these misdeeds.

Is it insane to think maybe we should all rally up and raise the money to pay the bill just to help relations with them and get them appeased long term?

Is this off topic? ^^

Is this a bag of peas on the 4WD's communities black eye?

I feel that Steve must pay his own debt, but I would be willing to donate to the BLM to keep our name untarnished and maintain positive rapport.

 

[fullsizeyota]

I feel that Steve must pay his own debt, but I would be willing to donate to the BLM to keep our name untarnished and maintain positive rapport.

damn right he better pay his own debt. I have to and I'm sure you do too.

 

[JL Rockies]

Torches and pitchforks....

 

[kmboren]

After the event, he then claimed that he was too busy to answer any specific management questions about the SWCF event, because he needed to spend time with a sick mother (or mother in law), but instead found himself at KOH having a grand old time with his daughter.. Wonder whose raffle tickets paid for that gas money?

Thanks for saying what many of us are thinking.

 

[Greg]

Once again, let's try keep this discussion on track about the misrepresentation and mismanagement of Southwest Crawlfest... quit blaming other people, pointing fingers, etc, etc, especially if you don't have facts about how this whole thing went down.

What we do know is that one man, Steve Crabtree, put the event together under the guise of raising money for local and National Land Use organizations.

He asked many people to help him with the event, which quite a few RME members did. This doesn't mean they're guilty of anything other than being willing to help someone that asked for help.

There are many, many other rumors flying about. It doesn't look good for Steve and the fact that he hasn't posted up to defend his actions, like he promised he would, does not look good for him at all.

 

[YOUKNOW]

IMO, there's very little good this thread is doing. It's become a witch hunt (just like the last two or three threads) with a lot of finger pointing and very little fact. IMO, it would be in Greg and Shane's best interest to close this thread and not bring it up again. I think it's looking poorly on RME and the 4wd community as a whole.

Agreed.

 

[Shawn]

In a lot of ways I agree with you Caleb, however if this thread is deleted there is a very good chance it will turn up on another board that is less likely to handle the situation as Greg has. Let it run, posts can always be cleaned and the originator PMed.

 

[ricsrx]

I don't know what the BLM bill is, but if it does not get paid, maybe we can work out something with the BLM and get it taken care of.
Some of us are in regular contact with the BLM and will follow up to make sure this is resolved.

I am also in for this

 

[rockreligious]

I'm not entirely sure that trying to dig the legal pit for him deeper than it needs to be is necessarily in our best interests when it comes to land use issues. I think the last thing we need is a major lawsuit slash BLM federal investigation on record in regards to a reasonably large and poorly managed 4x4 event. Anti-access orgs will run with that regardless of our own intentions to self police. I think the best thing to do is to try and get this resolved on our own and hope that the negative aspects can be swept under the rug and the rest of us can move forward on a positive foot with the BLM.

x2....lets not bring more bad attention to our community than nessasary.

 

[fullsizeyota]

I don't think this thread should be deleted. Not until ATLEAST steve admits guilt/wrong-doing/he dropped the ball/anything.

So when he tries this stunt a little while from now, we can reflect back on this thread. So we don't have people saying they were never warned like they have alread said in this very thread.

until some real news from either side comes out, i'm going to stop replying otherwise I'll just be pot-shotting at some of the comments being posted which in turn will be bashed by every nancy here on the board.

 

[Stacey]

Sorry guys, paying the BLM or sweeping this under the rug - I couldn't disagree more. Just because someone makes a person who steals held accountable does not necessarily mean it is done out of vengence. I believe if a crime is commited, turn it over to the authorities and let the chips fall where they may. I have no axe to grind with Steve on a personal level, he stole $200.00 of my money, it was not intended for him to use in any other manner than for Land Use. The BLM knows all too well about Steve and will follow thru with their own charges should they not be paid by him.

I understand the thinking of trying to protect the 4x4 community from a black eye, again, let the chips fall where they may by demonstrating to the eco-nazis and everyone else that our 4x4 community will not tollerate the kind of behavior Steve has shown. How do you think it would appear to SUWA should this be swept under the rug.

Steve needs to be held accountable. People like him don't just stop ripping others off unless they are made to pay the piper.

My .02