SUWA takes Canyonlands ORV ban request to Washington
- Thread starter diablokicks
- Start date
yellowjacket
Much more comfortable
- Location
- Eagle Mountain
What a bunch of crap! Don't these people have anything better to do! They feel imprisoned and want the rest of us to feel the same. 
I wonder if the preformed letters (is that what they are called?) that we have done in the past have/could help? Everyone uses the same basic body of the letter and adds their name and anything else to it...
I wonder if the preformed letters (is that what they are called?) that we have done in the past have/could help? Everyone uses the same basic body of the letter and adds their name and anything else to it...
- Location
- Riverton, UT
Form letters are usually counted as just one letter according to Juan Palma at the BLM.
It shows how lazy we are and how involved the tree hugger's are.
It shows how lazy we are and how involved the tree hugger's are.
I mentioned some of this on the other thread about this (http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?t=81985), but this thread seems to have more legs. (Funny how land use news in the land use section seems to make people yawn, but the exact same information in the general section gets people all fired up, but I digress...)
SUWA has blasted their members with a request to email Secretary Salazar in support of the petition. You should write him too. While your at it, I think it's a good idea to copy the affected local BLM offices and your congressional representatives too.
Secretary Salazar's Office feedback@ios.doi.gov
Moab Office utmbmail@blm.gov
Monticello Office utmtmail@blm.gov
Richfield office utrfmail@blm.gov)
SUWA has blasted their members with a request to email Secretary Salazar in support of the petition. You should write him too. While your at it, I think it's a good idea to copy the affected local BLM offices and your congressional representatives too.
Secretary Salazar's Office feedback@ios.doi.gov
Moab Office utmbmail@blm.gov
Monticello Office utmtmail@blm.gov
Richfield office utrfmail@blm.gov)
zukijames
Well-Known Member
- Location
- not moab anymore
So since we can't go break there legs and drive over there hybrid cars what
Do we need to do?
Do we need to do?
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
we definitely need to educate people better, not just by telling them to get involved, but organizing and explaining the proper steps to take to make changes. Sounds like SUWA has it down. Maybe we need to send someone over to SUWA undercover to learn about their plans, and to learn how they get their supporters so involved. Let's just hope they don't go native on us...
yellowjacket
Much more comfortable
- Location
- Eagle Mountain
I will send an email out and cc the others. Thanks for providing them!
- Location
- Riverton, UT
I will go visit the suwa offices Wednesday and see what I can shake out of the bushes. Just might learn something. At least they will know we are here.
yellowjacket
Much more comfortable
- Location
- Eagle Mountain
Excellent. Be sure to let us know asap what they say.
Off-road exploring is such a precious topic to me because it means quality family time. My Grandparent's started taking me when I was 1. I have been going regularly ever since with them, my parents and now with my own kids. If they imprison us in our own homes (unless we hike), the tradition will no longer be able to include the old and the young and anyone else who isn't in shape.
Off-road exploring is such a precious topic to me because it means quality family time. My Grandparent's started taking me when I was 1. I have been going regularly ever since with them, my parents and now with my own kids. If they imprison us in our own homes (unless we hike), the tradition will no longer be able to include the old and the young and anyone else who isn't in shape.
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You don't have to go undercover to learn SUWA's plans. They broadcast them widely and openly. There is very little secrecy (misconstructions of the truth yes, secrecy not so much). They plaster their website with their propaganda and they blast their members with "the sky is falling" emails on a minimum of a weekly basis.we definitely need to educate people better, not just by telling them to get involved, but organizing and explaining the proper steps to take to make changes. Sounds like SUWA has it down. Maybe we need to send someone over to SUWA undercover to learn about their plans, and to learn how they get their supporters so involved. Let's just hope they don't go native on us...
If you want to learn how they do it, you just have to learn to twist the truth to the point of bold faced lies. They work hard to convince people with deep pockets--most of whom live far enough away that they don't understand the actual topography or relationships between places--convince them that there is a line of ATVs circling Delicate Arch and if they don't donate $100 today that the ATVs will be building a ramp up over the top of the arch by morning.
The problem with our side is that we are so worried that "the enemy" might figure out our plans, that we work so hard to keep them "secret," to the point that the plan is SO secret that there IS no plan.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
I think our problem (of which I contribute to) is that it's far easier to complain on a thread that we're losing our trails than to actually do anything about it. SUWA is doing more than just complaining on their threads. They're organizing and strategizing.
Thank goodness for groups loike U4 and blue ribbon, and others. But I do think we need to get organized before our trails are gone.
So, from an ignorant person who's concerned about land use, what can I do to help stop SUWA? What are some basic steps we can take?
Thank goodness for groups loike U4 and blue ribbon, and others. But I do think we need to get organized before our trails are gone.
So, from an ignorant person who's concerned about land use, what can I do to help stop SUWA? What are some basic steps we can take?
Yeah, I know what you're saying, I was being as much tongue in cheek as anything.
I'm no expert, just as ignorant as the next person, but I think threads like this need to be more about what to do about this specific issue instead of focusing on how SUWA may or may not suck.
In this case, I think that writing to Secretary Salazar (who is the recipient of said petition) is the most effective thing to do. He's getting emails from them, he should get them from us too. I also think that copying the email to those listed in my previous post is helpful because it gives those agencies/politicians the empowerment to approach Salazar in a defensive mode with evidence of public support to back them up.
WHAT TO WRITE?
Good: Mention that you oppose the petition
Better: Add that you support the positions of USA-ALL, U4WDA, and BRC (then hope that those organizations are sending in correspondence stating their positions)
Best: Mention something personal and specific (such and such road that I use is within the petitioned area and the petition misrepresents the facts in that...).
As far as our land use organizations keeping us up to date:
BRC has out an action alert about this here telling us to contact our US Representatives using the link here.
U4WDA has a news alert that links to the BRC Action Alert here.
USA-ALL tends to be a little stingy on "action alerts" (they worry that sending out an action alert about every little thing tends to water down the enthusiasm and urgency and is like crying wolf before the real emergencies come along). So I couldn't find anything on their website or a specific call to action, but they did email out "Land Use News" about it, which included the following statement that they had provided to the media. I think it provides some ideas on what to include in your emails to Salazar/US Reps/whoever:
As far as a long-term, full fledged plan of attack? I think the thread here is very much headed in the right direction. It appears to have fizzled out here on the open forum, but I do hope that the ideas expressed are still strong behind the scenes (I know they still are strong on my end) and that U4WDA/USA-ALL are in contact with each other about how to get this thing rolling and that a need for specific member volunteer actions can be called for in the near future.
I'm no expert, just as ignorant as the next person, but I think threads like this need to be more about what to do about this specific issue instead of focusing on how SUWA may or may not suck.
In this case, I think that writing to Secretary Salazar (who is the recipient of said petition) is the most effective thing to do. He's getting emails from them, he should get them from us too. I also think that copying the email to those listed in my previous post is helpful because it gives those agencies/politicians the empowerment to approach Salazar in a defensive mode with evidence of public support to back them up.
WHAT TO WRITE?
Good: Mention that you oppose the petition
Better: Add that you support the positions of USA-ALL, U4WDA, and BRC (then hope that those organizations are sending in correspondence stating their positions)
Best: Mention something personal and specific (such and such road that I use is within the petitioned area and the petition misrepresents the facts in that...).
As far as our land use organizations keeping us up to date:
BRC has out an action alert about this here telling us to contact our US Representatives using the link here.
U4WDA has a news alert that links to the BRC Action Alert here.
USA-ALL tends to be a little stingy on "action alerts" (they worry that sending out an action alert about every little thing tends to water down the enthusiasm and urgency and is like crying wolf before the real emergencies come along). So I couldn't find anything on their website or a specific call to action, but they did email out "Land Use News" about it, which included the following statement that they had provided to the media. I think it provides some ideas on what to include in your emails to Salazar/US Reps/whoever:
As far as a long-term, full fledged plan of attack? I think the thread here is very much headed in the right direction. It appears to have fizzled out here on the open forum, but I do hope that the ideas expressed are still strong behind the scenes (I know they still are strong on my end) and that U4WDA/USA-ALL are in contact with each other about how to get this thing rolling and that a need for specific member volunteer actions can be called for in the near future.
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Could you pick up some detailed maps of ARRWA for me while you're there. The ones on their website are just too low resolution to be certain of the exact boundaries.
scoutabout
None
Maybe if there was a state association to help educate users like yourself (and others in this thread), everyone would know what to do and could step in to help with the fight. If only.
It is advisable to be self-motivated. There's no group that will teach you what to do or spend your donation wisely to protect your access. Educate yourself. Get involved locally. Positively influence other users to do the same.
Could you pick up some detailed maps of ARRWA for me while you're there. The ones on their website are just too low resolution to be certain of the exact boundaries.
Go nuts!
http://www.protectwildutah.org/proposal/index.html
http://www.protectwildutah.org/
http://www.suwa.org/site/PageServer?pagename=work_arwa
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sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
It is advisable to be self-motivated. There's no group that will teach you what to do or spend your donation wisely to protect your access. Educate yourself. Get involved locally. Positively influence other users to do the same.
maybe i should re-phrase my question. How do we:
1) educate ourselves, and
2) get involved locally?
where do we start? it's vague responses like these that make me feel even less helpless. I want to be educated, and I want to get involved, but I don't even know where to start.
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scoutabout
None
This will sound dickish, but wow.
Uhh, maybe here:
http://www.rme4x4.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
Or maybe the websites of the two groups that you mentioned as being great protectors of our access:
http://www.u4wda.org
http://www.sharetrails.org
If you read everything there, and read everything in the links on those sites, you will be a ninja land use master.
Since you couldn't even make this connection...I'm not hopeful.
scoutabout
None
Again, wow. There are active threads here on RME about donating to the PSH clean-up in Moab, mentions of volunteer opportunities, and the upcoming National Public Lands Day. I know that you spend time on this website. You haven't seen these threads?
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
Easy tiger. I'm aware of those groups and efforts. Picking up trash, treading lightly, staying on designated trails, leaving the trail better than you left it, donating to psh clean-up, participating in NLPD, etc doesn't help us stop SUWA. I'm not saying those efforts are in vain, I wholly support them. But they're not going to help us win any battles against SUWA (or if they are, then I need to understand why). They're not going to impact the decision-makers with the magnitude to match the efforts of SUWA.
I guess I'm trying to learn how to get more involved than being a member of U4 or blue ribbon, and how my local efforts can help solve the problem. I have filled out tons of those mass-emails where you add your story and send an email out, I've joined u4, I've donated money to our groups, but I don't feel like I'm doing enough, and I'm trying to learn more. I have a feeling SUWA's tactics are a little more advanced than mass copied emails.
I guess I'm trying to learn how to get more involved than being a member of U4 or blue ribbon, and how my local efforts can help solve the problem. I have filled out tons of those mass-emails where you add your story and send an email out, I've joined u4, I've donated money to our groups, but I don't feel like I'm doing enough, and I'm trying to learn more. I have a feeling SUWA's tactics are a little more advanced than mass copied emails.
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scoutabout
None
Sorry, I didn't know that you already knew everything about public land access issues. Looking forward to more of your wisdom.
Those things do fight SUWA, by disproving their propoganda, among other effects.
If you're a member of U4 and BRC, you should know by now that form letters are useless, and have been for about 10 years. Through their action alerts and publications, you would know this. So, my first practical suggestion is that you READ information sent to you by these groups. Again, you could READ their websites for a host of good information. Or READ some threads here on RME.
SUWA, their supporters and their allies have been planning this for longer than both of us have been alive. Yes, we are woefully unprepared. Is it because of poor leadership, or because most users won't take time to READ the information that's already out there and educate themselves? It's both, didn't want to leave you hanging.
So, READING would be a good place for you to start.