SUWA takes Canyonlands ORV ban request to Washington

[sixstringsteve]

I've got a good idea to promote land-use:

Let's insult people who ask sincere questions about how to be more effective, and put them down. That'll be sure to get them to want to fight for our lands.

I'm on your side scoutabout, but I have no idea why this turned into a personal attack. I'm trying to learn by READING, and POSTING, and ASKING QUESTIONS. But honestly, with all the attitude I've just been given, I have zero interest right now in learning more about it, as I'm sure many other readers are afraid to post their questions as well.

 

[scoutabout]

I've got a good idea to promote land-use:

Let's insult people who ask sincere questions about how to be more effective, and put them down. That'll be sure to get them to want to fight for our lands.

You were really dedicated before, what happened?

I'm on your side scoutabout, but I have no idea why this turned into a personal attack. I'm trying to learn by READING, and POSTING, and ASKING QUESTIONS.

You asked, I answered.

But honestly, with all the attitude I've just been given, I have zero interest right now in learning more about it, as I'm sure many other readers are afraid to post their questions as well.

That'll sure teach me! Man, you were about to be a great fighter for motorized access, until you got mad for having obvious information pointed out to you.

Dang, this is what lead you to having "zero interest"? You could've taken the advice, but instead you're going to cut off your nose to spite your face? Who loses if you don't get involved? Not me. You.

I was looking up two good books for you to read, but you've really hurt my feelings. I guess I'll post the links anyway.

If you want to know the mindset of the land managers caught in the middle, these are great books to read:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/11238/11238-h/11238-h.htm
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31367/31367-h/31367-h.htm

Gifford Pinchot was the first chief of the USFS (before it was even the USFS), and was very influential in shaping the last hundred years of land use management philosophy.

So all you were doing was "complaining in a thread" (your own statement), and when someone gave you something else you could do about it, you just go back to complaining in a thread. Taking your toys and going home? Too bad, I'm sure the land use fight needs your enthusiasm and great intelligence. You would have been involved except for X, Y, and Z. "X, Y, and Z" being any excuse you want to toss out there for why you won't put any effort into helping yourself.

It's your access, you're only hurting yourself.

sixstringsteve:...but I don't even know where to start.

Uhh, maybe here:

http://www.rme4x4.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19

Or maybe the websites of the two groups that you mentioned as being great protectors of our access:

http://www.u4wda.org
http://www.sharetrails.org

If you read everything there, and read everything in the links on those sites, you will be a ninja land use master.

 

[ret32]

...I guess I'm trying to learn how to get more involved than being a member of U4 or blue ribbon, and how my local efforts can help solve the problem...

I really enjoyed the "Land Use Activist" Seminar that USA-ALL held in January. For me, there was some great information about how to have your effort become a little more effective. My understanding is that they are planning to do more of these, and I hope they do. I think the thread about it that I linked earlier (http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?t=80154 contains some of the information we learned at that seminar and there is a good discussion about how some of that information can be turned to action.

Go to things like this

Forum on the Proposed Forest Planning Rule

The U.S. Forest Service is holding a series of public meetings to explain both the details and intent of the recently proposed draft Planning Rule that, if put into effect, will serve as a national blueprint for how hundreds of individual plans will chart national forest management in the coming years.

The purposes of the public meetings are to increase public understanding about the content of the draft rule; explain how input gathered during the public scoping period was incorporated into the draft rule; and respond to questions about the proposed planning rule...

...WHEN: The Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forests will host two identical forums on March 24th. The first forum will be held from 2:00-5:00 pm; the second will be held from 6:30-9:00 pm Mountain Time. We will use video teleconferencing technology to link distant Forest Service locations with subject matter experts from Washington, D.C. and Ogden, Utah.

WHERE: Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forests, Salt Lake Supervisor’s Office, Wallace F. Bennett Federal Building, 125 South State Street, Room 8438, Salt Lake City, Utah.

Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forests, Evanston /Mt. View Ranger Districts, 1565 Highway 150 South, Suite A, Evanston, Wyoming.

DETAILS: Full text of the proposed rule, instructions to provide comment and the planning rule blog and more can be found at: www.fs.usda.gov/planningrule

This is also talked about in the thread here.

U4WDA also has a link on their website to the full schedule of a dozen or so of these being held throughout the state, see here

Current Land Use Issues
UTAH, US National Forest Service Public Meetings on Draft Planning Rules.

The U.S. Forest Service is holding a series of public meetings on the recently proposed draft Planning Rule. It would serve as a national blueprint for national forest management in the coming years.. Join U4WDA in attending these meetings.

 

[ret32]

Could you pick up some detailed maps of ARRWA for me while you're there. The ones on their website are just too low resolution to be certain of the exact boundaries.

Go nuts!

http://www.protectwildutah.org/proposal/index.html
http://www.protectwildutah.org/
http://www.suwa.org/site/PageServer?pagename=work_arwa

Yeah, those are the ones that are too low resolution for my tastes. A lot of important map space is hidden behind the labels. And when I try to draw it out on other maps I have, some of the boundaries are not exactly clear.

I don't really expect Jack to walk out of there with a CD of all their highest quality maps, but it couldn't hurt to ask.

 

[scoutabout]

We hear so many complaints like sixstringsteve's. Where to start?

I've pointed out the answer. Anyone who spends a few minutes would quickly find:

BING

http://www.sharetrails.org/recreation-toolkit/

BAM

http://www.nohvcc.org/Tools/Library.aspx

BOOM

http://nohvcclibrary.forestry.uga.edu/mgtsub.html

All within 4 clicks of the links posted. But, sixstringsteve has proven that some users won't take the time to protect their own access. Hopefully someone has noticed.

Like it's been discussed before

http://www.google.com/search?q=nohvcc+site:rme4x4.com

http://www.google.com/search?q=nohvcc+site:rme4x4.com

But hey, it's easier to complain online than it is to educate oneself and get involved.

 

[ret32]

We hear so many complaints like sixstringsteve's. Where to start?

I personally didn't take Steve's question as a "complaint," just a sincere question about how to take it to the next level. One that many of us have, including myself.

I've pointed out the answer. Anyone who spends a few minutes would quickly find:

BING

http://www.sharetrails.org/recreation-toolkit/

BAM

http://www.nohvcc.org/Tools/Library.aspx

BOOM

http://nohvcclibrary.forestry.uga.edu/mgtsub.html

All within 4 clicks of the links posted.

Great links! Thanks for sharing. I'll have to read through those more thoroughly. Looks like some good information in there.

 

[scoutabout]

Ret32, I was using sixstringsteve's own words. He mentioned that most people don't know what to do beyond complaining about the problems online. I tried to point out that there's a huge amount of information at our fingertips, but most people never take the time to read and learn about the issues and what can be done. Then they 'quit' in frustration, blaming everyone but themselves. This is why we say that our biggest enemy isn't SUWA or Sierra Club, it's our own users. Either because of apathy or as an irresponsible user in some instances.

 

[Skylinerider]

You wanna get involved more than just being a member of U4 or BRC?

1. Stop into your nearest BLM field office. Ask them what is coming up on the agenda as far as RMP's or any land use issues. When you first go in, they will have an almost shocked look on their face. Almost no one comes in and asks what can be done.

2. Educate yourself and others. Go HERE and take the treadlightly awareness course. Once you do that, maybe read a book. You wanna get into "their" mind? I recommend "Wilderness and the American Mind" by Roderick Nash.

3. Start writing -to your local paper, the Trib, the Des News, anyone that'll listen. Let em know our side. The big difference between SUWA and us is PR. They have somone to write news releases and they have Heidi to go on TV, and make thier case to the masses. They have guys like John Muir and Thoreau who romanticize the topic of wilderness so much that it'll turn most anyone.

4. Donate $. To U4, Tread Lightly or whoever, they all could use some scratch to help out in their own way.

 

[sixstringsteve]

thanks skylinerider, that's the sort of info I needed. I need to take the tread lightly course, and I need to go to a BLM office. I didn't even know we had a BLM field office nearby.

 

[Skylinerider]

.... and I need to go to a BLM office. I didn't even know we had a BLM field office nearby.

For you that would be the SLC field office. For others, go HERE and use the map on the right side of the page to find your local office.

 

[Max Power]

You wanna get involved more than just being a member of U4 or BRC?

1. Stop into your nearest BLM field office. Ask them what is coming up on the agenda as far as RMP's or any land use issues. When you first go in, they will have an almost shocked look on their face. Almost no one comes in and asks what can be done.

2. Educate yourself and others. Go HERE and take the treadlightly awareness course. Once you do that, maybe read a book. You wanna get into "their" mind? I recommend "Wilderness and the American Mind" by Roderick Nash.

3. Start writing -to your local paper, the Trib, the Des News, anyone that'll listen. Let em know our side. The big difference between SUWA and us is PR. They have somone to write news releases and they have Heidi to go on TV, and make thier case to the masses. They have guys like John Muir and Thoreau who romanticize the topic of wilderness so much that it'll turn most anyone.

4. Donate $. To U4, Tread Lightly or whoever, they all could use some scratch to help out in their own way.

Thanks for some real suggestions. These look like some good ways for me to get involved above and beyond donating to land access groups.

 

[jackjoh]

For some reason I have not figured out how to multiple quote so will just answer and post what I remember.
1. Again Steve Jackson is correct in a way that turns people off. Read his posts and learn but try to realize that he fought the battle up close and personal for many years and gets frustrated when he hears the same things over and over.
2. To sixstringsteve and anyone else with the same questions, come to the next U4 meeting this coming Thursday, 3/31/2011, 6:30 PM, LH Miller Jeep in Sandy and volunteer to take on a position to help U4 fight this battle.
3. Ret32, I will try to pick up maps but I am not too sure what kind of a welcome I will get after some of the communications I have had with Heidi McIntosh.
4. I had a chance to stop in at the SLC BLM office on the spur of the moment and Juan Palma was not available but talked awhile with Sherry Foot about the RAC. They are trying to move their March meeting to April if they can get enough of the RAC members to attend. Will keep everyone posted as we always need a presence there even though Frank White is on our side. There are some RAC positions open and will post up when I get some more information.

 

[scoutabout]

Thanks for some real suggestions.

Go f yourself. How's that for a 'real' suggestion. Take time to follow the advice I've written in this thread, and do some reading. You'll find amazing practical and specific tips at the links provided. Or just complain in a thread online.

Just talkin' online. Access is sure to be protected.

You wanna get into "their" mind? I recommend "Wilderness and the American Mind" by Roderick Nash.

I was referring to land managers, not environmental extremists. But your example is an excellent reference for those minds.

 

[Max Power]

Go f yourself. How's that for a 'real' suggestion. Take time to follow the advice I've written in this thread, and do some reading. You'll find amazing practical and specific tips at the links provided. Or just complain in a thread online.

Just talkin' online. Access is sure to be protected.



I was referring to land managers, not environmental extremists. But your example is an excellent reference for those minds.

You need to stop talking. There is nothing wrong with what I wrote. I wasn't even reffering to you. Quit being a oversensitive girl.

 

[Skylinerider]

And there goes another thread. Steve, yeah we've gone over it all before; yes it may all be old hat to you, but there are people that are not as all knowing as you are when it comes to this stuff. Maybe a little "hand holding" is warranted. People need specific direction especially when starting out. Have some patience with people.

 

[scoutabout]

And there goes another thread. Steve, yeah we've gone over it all before; yes it may all be old hat to you, but there are people that are not as all knowing as you are when it comes to this stuff. Maybe a little "hand holding" is warranted. People need specific direction especially when starting out. Have some patience with people.

Hand holding and common sense are different. Someone can't take the time to do a little reading, not much can be done for them. The links I provided are legit advice for anyone starting out and looking for more information. Everything you suggested (plus 7 more practical tips) is on a page under the BRC recreation toolkit link I provided. Your advice is considerably better because you put it in a post instead of expecting people to click and read?

I'll leave the access battle in your capable hands. Another thread? F you too Curt.

 

[scoutabout]

You need to stop talking. There is nothing wrong with what I wrote. I wasn't even reffering to you. Quit being a oversensitive girl.

Shouldn't you be f'ing yourself?

 

[Skylinerider]

Another thread? F you too Curt.

Right back at you sexy

 

[Max Power]

Shouldn't you be f'ing yourself?

 

[iamsparticus]

I think to start if your not a member of a club then you need to be, i thought i was from signing up for one through southwestcrawlfest but i never got a email or anything im pretty sure i signed up for U4 but with the scandal i will proably never know. I think the next thing is to start attending any land use meetings or court hearing and write out rep's. in the the state