vehicle advice, follow-up

[Houndoc]

A couple of weeks ago I tossed out a question on vehicle choices for moderate off-road and child friendly. From the comments I recieved, I get the idea that width of a vehicle is not as big as a concern to most as length (makes since with manuverability).

That would seem to rule-out most crew cab pickups (Tundra, Avalance, Dakota etc, but not the Tacoma)

So, based on that I have narrowed my search (on paper and pavement) to a hand full of vehicles. Now I need to find the best option based on reliablity and stock off-road ability (except poss. upgrade tires- and if you have ideas on what size fits best without a lift say so.)

At this point I am looking most at Toyota Sequoia & 4Runner (rear hip room is surprisimgly good), Mitsubishi Montero (not M. Sport) and Land Rover Discovery. Since this will also need to be my commuter, I am looking at 03-04s.

So, lets start a friendly debate on the merits of the above, or any others I am missing. Unfortunately I can't make it a vote and buy the winner since price will need to factor in somewhere.

Thanks and I lookk foward to input from your experinces with these vehicles.

Drew

 

[mbryson]

A couple of weeks ago I tossed out a question on vehicle choices for moderate off-road and child friendly. From the comments I recieved, I get the idea that width of a vehicle is not as big as a concern to most as length (makes since with manuverability).

That would seem to rule-out most crew cab pickups (Tundra, Avalance, Dakota etc, but not the Tacoma)

So, based on that I have narrowed my search (on paper and pavement) to a hand full of vehicles. Now I need to find the best option based on reliablity and stock off-road ability (except poss. upgrade tires- and if you have ideas on what size fits best without a lift say so.)

At this point I am looking most at Toyota Sequoia & 4Runner (rear hip room is surprisimgly good), Mitsubishi Montero (not M. Sport) and Land Rover Discovery. Since this will also need to be my commuter, I am looking at 03-04s.

So, lets start a friendly debate on the merits of the above, or any others I am missing. Unfortunately I can't make it a vote and buy the winner since price will need to factor in somewhere.

Thanks and I lookk foward to input from your experinces with these vehicles.

Drew

Sounds to me like you have your shopping list. I'd just go make the best deal you can on any one of those. If I were looking at that list, I'd probably stick to the Toyotas. The only beef I have with the LR, is parts cost and 'percieved' reliability issues (never owned one-just what you hear).

Just out of curiosity, why no Grand Cherokee? Great bang for the buck in the used market.

 

[Jay5.9L]

As for off road, a grand cherokee will beat any of the trucks you listed and is very easily upgraded as far as suspension. It on the smaller side for a mid size SUV so take that into consideration.

I'm not a big fan od the discovery but they do make decent off road vehicals and do seat a lot of people. Relaibility is about average. HTH

My suggestion would be to go out and test rive the piss out of them all. paper is one thing but driving is another

 

[pokeyYJ]

As for off road, a grand cherokee will beat any of the trucks you listed and is very easily upgraded as far as suspension. It on the smaller side for a mid size SUV so take that into consideration.

I'm not a big fan od the discovery but they do make decent off road vehicals and do seat a lot of people. Relaibility is about average. HTH

My suggestion would be to go out and test rive the piss out of them all. paper is one thing but driving is another

A GC can beat a Disco off-road Just Kidding.

I may be biased but I think that the 03-04 Disco is the best of the bunch that you have listed. Heres the run down:

4.6L V-8 with over 300 lb-ft torque, 4 speed automatic tranny, 3.3 low range, 4 way traction control, and 4 way Hill Decent Control, easily modified suspension, seven seater with rear A/C. WAY nicer interiors than anything Yota or Jeep could offer.

 

[Houndoc]

Sounds to me like you have your shopping list. I'd just go make the best deal you can on any one of those. If I were looking at that list, I'd probably stick to the Toyotas. The only beef I have with the LR, is parts cost and 'percieved' reliability issues (never owned one-just what you hear).

Just out of curiosity, why no Grand Cherokee? Great bang for the buck in the used market.

My only reason for not putting the Grand Cherokee on the list is simply seating. The others all have the option at least for more seating, although only the Sequoia was a decent ammount of storage once the 3rd row of seats are being used.

 

[Caleb]

I really like the Discovery BUT the most recent reports show Land Rover is THE WORST for reliability...below Dae Woo, Kia, Hyundai, etc...that makes me think twice about Land Rover...Sequoias, IMO, are huge and bulky...nothing that belongs off-road...the 4-Runner would be a good one, Toyota has always been known for reliability and there are a lot of off-road options for it. (factory E-Locker)

 

[Houndoc]

I saw the same report on the Land Rover. Makes me want some real world feed back for people who run them.

 

[Jeeptj98]

A GC can beat a Disco off-road Just Kidding.

I may be biased but I think that the 03-04 Disco is the best of the bunch that you have listed. Heres the run down:

4.6L V-8 with over 300 lb-ft torque, 4 speed automatic tranny, 3.3 low range, 4 way traction control, and 4 way Hill Decent Control, easily modified suspension, seven seater with rear A/C. WAY nicer interiors than anything Yota or Jeep could offer.

Pokey wasn't it you last year that told me that the Grand Cherokee out Performed the Land Rovers on your Little Offroad course?

 

[pokeyYJ]

Pokey wasn't it you last year that told me that the Grand Cherokee out Performed the Land Rovers on your Little Offroad course?

Let me find the thing that Land Rover did as PR stunt.............. basically they cycled the GC suspension articulation like 30K times and then went to open the doors and couldn't .

As for LR being the most unreliable, I don't know? Who did the study? What questions did they ask? Did they ask about how the customer felt about the car? My guess is that most LR owner are happy with the Disco, and would buy another one, proof being the amount of return sales customers that we get.

Again, I'm biased but if I had another choice for a DD and weekend trail rig I would not hesitate to buy another LR.



BLEED GREEN

 

[Caleb]

Let me find the thing that Land Rover did as PR stunt.............. basically they cycled the GC suspension articulation like 30K times and then went to open the doors and couldn't .

As for LR being the most unreliable, I don't know? Who did the study? What questions did they ask? Did they ask about how the customer felt about the car? My guess is that most LR owner are happy with the Disco, and would buy another one, proof being the amount of return sales customers that we get.

Again, I'm biased but if I had another choice for a DD and weekend trail rig I would not hesitate to buy another LR.



BLEED GREEN

let me find the article...it was not based on anyones opinions, it was simply based on how many problems the vehicles have on average per vehicle.

 

[Caleb]

here is one from USA Today, stating Land Rover is the worst
USA Today

here is a name plate ranking based on problems per 100 vehicles on Cars.com
Cars.com

basically LR is nearly double the industry standard...

 

[Greg]

I looked into purchasing an older LR quite awhile ago, Caleb is totally right. Reliability on them sucks hardcore. Bleed Green...? You sure will when you bust your knuckles every weekend fixing the issues.

Still, I'd drive a D90 any day of the week. Those things are cool!

 

[pokeyYJ]

Caleb- Both of the reports that you have posted relate to Land Rovers 3 years and older. There is no comparison between the 2001 Disco's and the 2003-2004 Disco's. LR relized too late in the game that American car buyers didn't want a car that leaked oil. The 2003-2004 Disco is a completely different vehicle and I would say that if you were to conduct a current study you would find far fewer problems. Also you have to realize that the luxury SUV market is an extremely picky customer base that will bring the vehicle in for every little thing. If you noticed the USA Today article noted that Mercedes and BMW, Saab, Inifiniti, etc.. were all down from previous years.

Possibility number two is that with so few independant serivice shops around, LR owners are forced to visit dealers.

Here is another reason why I wouldn't put much wieght on the articles rating of ANY brand. The way that J.D. Power gathers their information is from web-based owner responses, and the people that respond to these questionairs are people that either have a really bad experience or a really good ones. I had seen a LR based questionair that was conducted for the 2003 Disco's and the only real complaints were for trim items.

I still stand by my Range Rover, it is and extremely solid rig and has well over 200K on all original motor and tranny. As for working on it every weekend all I can say is this, I have spent far fewer hours in the shop working on my RR then I did working on my 95 Wrangler with 80K, same goes for my buddies 98 Wrangler.

Bottom line-

Land Rover is a premium brand that has an undeserved bad reputation for being expensive and unreliable.

Come down and drive one- you will see what I mean- the GC doesn't even compare with the Disco, and isn't even in the same neighborhood as the Range Rover.


BLEED GREEN!

 

[pokeyYJ]

I looked into purchasing an older LR quite awhile ago, Caleb is totally right. Reliability on them sucks hardcore.

How can you say that reliability sucks on older LR's? You never owned one! That would be like me saying that Toyota's are terrible daily drivers.(never owned a Yota)

Bleed Green...?

For LIFE!

 

[greenjeep]

here is one from USA Today, stating Land Rover is the worst
USA Today

here is a name plate ranking based on problems per 100 vehicles on Cars.com
Cars.com

basically LR is nearly double the industry standard...

Looks convincing to me, BUY A GRAND!!!!!!!!!

 

[Big Black XJ]

Sounds to me like you have your shopping list. I'd just go make the best deal you can on any one of those. If I were looking at that list, I'd probably stick to the Toyotas. The only beef I have with the LR, is parts cost and 'percieved' reliability issues (never owned one-just what you hear).

Just out of curiosity, why no Grand Cherokee? Great bang for the buck in the used market.

Amen to the Cherokee. $12-16 G's for a '99-01.

 

[Greg]

How can you say that reliability sucks on older LR's? You never owned one! That would be like me saying that Toyota's are terrible daily drivers.(never owned a Yota)



For LIFE!

Now you're just getting all defensive. When I look into purchasing a vehicle, I do ton's of research before making a decision, including talking to people who have owned said vehicle. The conclusion I came to was that parts are hard to get, expensive & LR's are less reliable that comparable vehicles. If you can prove to me otherwise.... yea for you.

But, like I said, I was looking at older, higher mileage vehicles. Don't forget that.

 

[pokeyYJ]

Looks convincing to me, BUY A GRAND!!!!!!!!!

Yeah buy a GC so that you can deal with bent Uni-bodies, cheesy leather interiors, cheap plastic dash and door panels, and D-35's or aluminum 44's, and good luck trying to seat two car seats and three kids in a GC, oh and have fun dealing with trying to lift it with having increased interior noise and vibration.


But yeah buy domestic, they are soooo much better.

 

[WayneXJ]

Land Rovers are lame, I might as well get an H2.

 

[pokeyYJ]

Now you're just getting all defensive. When I look into purchasing a vehicle, I do ton's of research before making a decision, including talking to people who have owned said vehicle. The conclusion I came to was that parts are hard to get, expensive & LR's are less reliable that comparable vehicles. If you can prove to me otherwise.... yea for you.

But, like I said, I was looking at older, higher mileage vehicles. Don't forget that.

Dude I own an old HIGH mileage Land Rover!

I am sorry that I get defensive, but I am sick of always hearing about how unreliable the LR is. Yes they have their quirks, but show me a rig that doesn't. As for part pricing, the cost of LR parts has come down recently because there is a growing aftermarket to compete with factory parts, I would say that part pricing is similar to Mitsubishi, Subaru, Infiniti, and a few other import vehicles.


Out of curiosity, what were the biggest compaints other LR owners had about their vehicles? (I think that I have a pretty good idea)