What do you suggest we do for Healthcare?

[waynehartwig]

Try more like 21% unemployment rate Over 5? million people lost their jobs last year. The US is such an economic nightmare that Canada actually passed us this year for the first time since the great depression.

True, when you say it like that it really makes sense. But read into it further....
If I don't buy their ~$40k a year policy, I get fined 5% on my federal taxes. If I don't pay their fine, I end up in jail - and not beside Obama and his cronies, either.
Obama's plan will bring on over 100 new beuracrcies <sp?> - who's paying for those? Healthcare hasnt even been overhauled yet, and it's already cost tax payers 1.8 trillion dollars. Between the favortism and etc.

There are more reasons but you get the idea.

Obama's bill also wanted to allow people to legally buy their prescription drugs from outside the US, and that got taken out. The current version would immediately lower the cost of prescriptions for senior citizens. It will also allow recent college graduates who cannot find work, due to the 10% unemployment rate, to remain on their parents' health care up to the age 27. It also requires private health insurance companies to disclose how much of your premiums actually go towards providing your care, and how much they just keep for their own profit. It also guarantees that you cannot be denied coverage from any health insurance provider, regardless of any pre-existing condition.


How dare they!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

True, that last part just means that insurance companies will charge more than you make in a year to cover you and your "pre-existing condition", but we're not splitting hairs here...

I find it interesting that conservative Christians are against wanting everyone to have healthcare:

"He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God." Proverbs 14:31

"The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern." Proverbs 29:7

"If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:17-18


Now, I'm no Christian, but considering this is their book, the infallible word of their god, I find it surprising how quickly they they skim past those passages when it's convenient...

 

[Herzog]

Either way, with the current system, if youre sick, you're F'd. Sure you cannot be refused treatment but you have to wait until youre on deaths door to get it. Afterward you pay the rest of your life however short it may be. theres no preventive treatment, just wait until its too late.

I agree, and that sucks!

The thing that should be happening is that the insurance companies SHOULD be fighting / competing to insure you, not the other way around how it currently is (and will permanently be pending "the bill"). Right now we have to fight just to get insured and pay out the rear for it and this "Insurance Company backed Reform" is going to make that a permanent thing.

Gov't has allowed the insurance companies to remove the competition element out of insurance. Health insurance companies should be fighting to insure me just like auto insurance fights to insure my car!

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

As for health care, not sure what to do to fix it. But the first thing is to take gvt completely out of it like Herzog said. Most states already have subsidized health care taht you can apply for if you are low income. I remember I was in a car accident back in 91 and no health care. My hospital bill was over $300k. I had to pay $18 for having my cable tv turned on 2 days - the state paid the rest.

The wrong answer is to completely toss out what we have and completely make a new one, regardless if it's gvt ran or not. Fix what we already have first.

So who paid the $300K? And who's talking about tossing out what we have?

 

[waynehartwig]

It's not the Fed's job to fix healthcare. If the Fed wants to take on healthcare, they must do it constitutionally. Write up a healthcare amendment and go through the amendment process which has to be ratified by a 2/3 majority of the states. This will never happen so the Fed is sliming it's way though loopholes in closed door meetings. It's not about healthcare, it's about a power grab.

Exactly. Everything they are doing right now is against the constitution of THESE United States.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Health insurance companies should be fighting to insure me just like auto insurance fights to insure my car!

x2

We pay out of pocket for our own health insurance, its not the end of the world just another bill we factor into living. I think paying a mortgage sucks too but Obama is going to help me there too right?

 

[waynehartwig]

So who paid the $300K? And who's talking about tossing out what we have?

The CA tax payer paid it. Since I was working at the time, I was also paying taxes....


Obama's health care proposal does exactly that. Takes it completely out of the hand of the people and puts into the hand of the gvt. They've already fawked up medicare and social security and etc...

 

[waynehartwig]

x2

We pay out of pocket for our own health insurance, its not the end of the world just another bill we factor into living. I think paying a mortgage sucks too but Obama is going to help me there too right?

i think it's entitlement... I think a very small percentage (3 people?) think healthcare is a right that everyone ELSE should pay for.

 

[GOAT]

Gov't has allowed the insurance companies to remove the competition element out of insurance. Health insurance companies should be fighting to insure me just like auto insurance fights to insure my car!

Yep, they should , but why? they have no reason to.LOBBYIST play a major part in these things. Start with them, and more than healthcare will change.

 

[Herzog]

Yep, they should , but why? they have no reason to.LOBBYIST play a major part in these things. Start with them, and more than healthcare will change.

I think we actually agree on the situation then.

 

[GOAT]

I think we actually agree on the situation then.

bout' time

 

[GOAT]

Takes it completely out of the hand of the people and puts into the hand of the gvt. They've already fawked up medicare and social security and etc...

and the VA?

Look, I'm just as nihilistic as the next gen-Xr, but I know there's a place for everything. My biggest peeve in some arguments is lack of consistency in across the board (not RME) in the opinions regarding government intervention or regulation in matters.

Out of healthcare, fine. Abolish the death penalty, we know they regularly fawk up both of them.

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

I agree, and that sucks!

The thing that should be happening is that the insurance companies SHOULD be fighting / competing to insure you, not the other way around how it currently is (and will permanently be pending "the bill"). Right now we have to fight just to get insured and pay out the rear for it and this "Insurance Company backed Reform" is going to make that a permanent thing.

Gov't has allowed the insurance companies to remove the competition element out of insurance. Health insurance companies should be fighting to insure me just like auto insurance fights to insure my car!

As long as the insurance companies are in business to make a profit, they will fight to insure the healthy. If you cannot get insurance because of pre-existing conditions, where do you go? Medicaid? Medicare? Some kind of govt subsidized policy. So the insurance companies will cover all of the people that they can make money off of, and the federal government or state will cover the rest. Is that really fair?

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

And Wayne, I want you on my death panel.

 

[waynehartwig]

As long as the insurance companies are in business to make a profit, they will fight to insure the healthy. If you cannot get insurance because of pre-existing conditions, where do you go? Medicaid? Medicare? Some kind of govt subsidized policy. So the insurance companies will cover all of the people that they can make money off of, and the federal government or state will cover the rest. Is that really fair?

Maybe, but why should I, someone that is insurable and willing to pay for my own healthcare, go on this govt subsidized shotty system?

But yes, if you want a hand out and won't support yourself, then how can you be choosy? Beggers can't be choosers... If the gvt is going to give you medicaid/medicare, take it, because you don't deserve it. ...Of course I'm not talking to 80 year olds that have worked their entire life and just want to retire in peace. I'm talking about the 30 year old with 13 kids and won't work a day in her life. Or the illegal immigrant that get's sick.

And that's another thing... Why is that an illegal get's better healthcare, etc than a US CITIZEN?!??!?! I don't care what country they come from or what color their skin is, an illegal should be taken to jail, not the hospital.

 

[GOAT]

As long as the insurance companies are in business to make a profit, they will fight to insure the healthy. If you cannot get insurance because of pre-existing conditions, where do you go? Medicaid? Medicare? Some kind of govt subsidized policy. So the insurance companies will cover all of the people that they can make money off of, and the federal government or state will cover the rest. Is that really fair?

not one bit.

To quote dole, I say "where's the outrage!?!" If the town hall idiots would have spent half as much time crashing the lobbies of these companies as they did shouting at one another, they would have actually contributed to some sort of awareness. the media would have had no choice but to acknowledge it.

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

I think we're getting it two fold. Those of us who are paying for our own insurance and medical care are footing the bill for those who won't. And all of us are paying taxes for those who can't. one way or the other, everyone gets treated, and it get's paid for.

 

[waynehartwig]

and the VA?

Look, I'm just as nihilistic as the next gen-exr, but I know there's a place for everything. My biggest peeve in some arguments is lack of consistency in across the board (not RME) in the opinions regarding government intervention or regulation in matters.

Out of healthcare, fine. Abolish the death penalty, we know they regularly fawk up both of them.

Well if it helps, I'm copmletely against big govt. The only thing they should be doing is keeping the US safe from foriegn threats, period. If CA wants to offer everyone in CA healthcare, illegal or not, that's fine. But it's not a federal gvt issue. The COTUS was written for a reason, time to get back to it.

 

[waynehartwig]

I think we're getting it two fold. Those of us who are paying for our own insurance and medical care are footing the bill for those who won't. And all of us are paying taxes for those who can't. one way or the other, everyone gets treated, and it get's paid for.

Then leave everything the way it is and the gvt can pay our premiums - Federal Blue Shield for everyone! that's as far into my healthcare that I want them to be, and even then it's too far... Bottom line, it's not their job.

Look how many hours and billions of dollars they have wasted on this issue alone and hey have done nothing for the MILLIONS of people loosing their jobs, homes, etc. But better make sure they get free healthcare. it's BS!

Not to mention, they are doing it regardless of what American's think! I think last I heard over 70% of American's are against solicialized medicine. Why do 3 people keep pushing it on us, even when we don't want it? Get a clue! The MA election yesterday is an astounding voice against what is going on right now. Time to shut up and listen (not you, the gvt)!

 

[JackKeslerCustoms]

"......this is the only issue I've heard of that all of the major players (Insurance Companies, Pharmaceutical Companies, Hospitals, and Doctors) agree that the current system is unsustainable. Right now, or at least in 2008, the average family of 4 paid $14,000 a year for health care, out of pocket, with insurance. At the current rate, by 2018 the average family of 4 will pay $38,000 per year, out of pocket, with insurance."

That's quoted from what I wrote in the other thread, but that's why I started this one. Where we are at now with health care is not sustainable for anyone involved. from Ins, to Doctors to patients. This would be a good time to do something about it.

 

[GOAT]

! The MA election yesterday is an astounding voice against what is going on right now. Time to shut up and listen (not you, the gvt)!

not sure about that one(see caveman comment in MA thread). Voters are angry, frustrated and also clearly uneducated on issues at hand. The election of a black man named barack hussein obama in breadbasket america is a pretty good example of this. During the 04' election, no way was Obama getting elected. By the second W term, barney the dinosaur could have won. We are seeing that unfocused frustration seeping into the polling booths again. For the record, I didn't vote for either candidate in 08, but think we were long overdue for somebody OTW to take a turn at the helm.

Oh, and from what I understand MA has government mandated healthcare where nearly 90% of residents have coverage. It is also of my understanding, a creation of Romney. I don't think the voters of MA care about how their rep votes on healthcare, they're covered.


i could be wrong