What is keeping you on the sidelines?

What needs to be done to get your involvment in land use issues?

  • I want to help but I don't know how.

    Votes: 8 44.4%
  • I doubt I have any skills you need.

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • I can't give you more than a couple hours a week.

    Votes: 4 22.2%
  • I would rather give you money then work.

    Votes: 5 27.8%

  • Total voters
    18

Seth

These go to 11
I am curious why people are not more active in land use issues.

This is not a piss and moan thread. I am just trying to figure out how we can entice people to join us at the U4 meetings and support the cause.

Or at the bare minimum find out if people are intimidated or apathetical.

Think of this as a customer satisfaction survey. How can we get and retain quality volunteers?
 

Meat_

Banned
Location
Lehi
I think you would get more volunteers if you specified what you need. If people can read a list of things that need to be done, they can put a finger on one and say "I can do that". Where as an open ended "we need help" is vague. For an example, look at how many people show up for fence builds, clean up days and trail marking.
 

Milner

formerly "rckcrlr"
An honest answer....Sooooo many years of fighting, I am tired! I get so worked up and pissed off that I can't let go and it starts to effect my daily mood. I have to keep a healthy distance. That being said, I stil write my letters and promote "our" side to those I encounter daily. But, I spent too much time ocd'ing on fighting....all the list all the organizations, just overload.

Where the greens have it right is a parent organization, with the kids working under it....Sierra->SUWA. We sem to have too many different agendas among ourselves. USA-all, BRC, U4wda, etc, and then there are the other small association and funds like RR4W and other. And then there are the ATV, 2 wheeler, Mtn bike, climbing access advocates.....Too little money spread out too many places....
 

offroaddave

It's just one term!
Location
sunset
I'd have to agree with rckcrlr, Eccept USAALL should be the voice for all the folks that enjoy motorized access to public lands.
It sucks when you have sled heads getting pissed at atv'ers.(for example) The whole share trails.thing. :confused:

Yea, waaaayyy to many organizations, Not enough money.:(



Ohh yea, Plus the greens get a crap load of money from all over the country from people they "LIE" to saying there helping ( PROTECT) the envirionment. Mostley older folks Who don't really have the money, But honestly want to do something good.


IMO.
 
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Skylinerider

Wandering the desert
Location
Ephraim
I am always happy to help with the cause. I really can't go to the U4 meetings right now because the wife is on bed rest for the remainder of the pregnancy and I gotta do all the house work and everything else to make her comfortable.

Okay what can I do to help? Meat is right we need a list and some direction to get started.
 

James K

NO, I'm always like this
Location
Taylorsville, Ut
I think you would get more volunteers if you specified what you need. If people can read a list of things that need to be done, they can put a finger on one and say "I can do that". Where as an open ended "we need help" is vague. For an example, look at how many people show up for fence builds, clean up days and trail marking.
agreed

We sem to have too many different agendas among ourselves. USA-all, BRC, U4wda, etc, and then there are the other small association and funds like RR4W and other. And then there are the ATV, 2 wheeler, Mtn bike, climbing access advocates.....Too little money spread out too many places....
yep

I'd have to agree with rckcrlr, Eccept USAALL should be the voice for all the folks that enjoy motorized access to public lands.


Yea, waaaayyy to many organizations, Not enough money.:(


.
agreed.

and some people have just left me with a bad attitude toward the situation.
 

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
I'd like to remind everyone: $10 memberships to U4WDA. Not much more to join EVERY OTHER GROUP.

More troops help. How much money do we all waste on useless BS instead of helping fund access groups? How many hours watching TV instead of going to monthly meetings???????
 

Exalted 4x4

So. U Crew
Location
Salt Lake/So,UT
Are there any meetings in the southern part of the state? What is the current situation of the sand hollow park trails? I was there this weekend and there was trash around and people are making more trails all over. Is there a way to get this organized so these trails can stay open? Hate to put it on someone but most of the problems i could see is the "IRRESPONSIBLE USERS!!!!". Which is similar to the problem the kanab boys fixed in hogs canyon in kanab.
 
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offroaddave

It's just one term!
Location
sunset
I'd like to remind everyone: $10 memberships to U4WDA. Not much more to join EVERY OTHER GROUP.

More troops help. How much money do we all waste on useless BS instead of helping fund access groups? How many hours watching TV instead of going to monthly meetings???????

Yes, but i think the point is if we were as organized as the weenies,
the money could possibly be put to more use.
Less chiefs more indians. If that offends anyone (incuding chiefs or indians)
It's not intended to.
U4WDA does great things, And i am a member, But I also agree with James K
about a bad feeling sometimes.
And i'll say it again. I like what U4WDA does.
 

Kiel

Formerly WJ ZUK
I have been going to U4WDA meetings guys for almost 6 months now, it can be a little frustrating especially as it seems so hard to make any progress. It really wears you down trying and trying and trying to reach people and get things organized etc. I know that when there was a cleanup I was there, the sad thing is it takes months and months to get permission to do anything more then a cleanup- like a bypass closure, or even just trail maintanence. I know that there are some people on this board, that don't think much of U4wda, and even some of my own views differ from other members, but I went to the meetings and we are all on the same team, and I realize now after 6 months that it sucks being the one that does the fighting, organization, fundraising, public relations, education etc. It just plain wears you out, and when some people get defensive about attitudes and the way some people come across, its tough to keep your cool when you are constantley fighting a loosing battle.
 

Seth

These go to 11
I think you would get more volunteers if you specified what you need. If people can read a list of things that need to be done, they can put a finger on one and say "I can do that". Where as an open ended "we need help" is vague. For an example, look at how many people show up for fence builds, clean up days and trail marking.

That is part of it for sure. I know that communication is a huge issue for any organization. That is one of the board positions that needs to be filled. We need someone for PR. Basically they would be posting updates on lawsuits, travel plans, events and such. Not a lot of time required but it would be a huge help. Open positions are listed later in this post.

Where the greens have it right is a parent organization, with the kids working under it....Sierra->SUWA. We sem to have too many different agendas among ourselves. USA-all, BRC, U4wda, etc, and then there are the other small association and funds like RR4W and other. And then there are the ATV, 2 wheeler, Mtn bike, climbing access advocates.....Too little money spread out too many places....

I think you give the other side too much credit. "Organized crime is not that organized." The Sierra CLub is not the parent of SUWA. It is all perception. I know this because of my background in marketing. They have done a much better job of marketing. The message (as false as it is) appears more cohesive because they have the money to pay people.

USAALL should be the voice for all the folks that enjoy motorized access to public lands. Yea, waaaayyy to many organizations, Not enough money.:(

Just a quick outline for those of you reading this thread that don't understand all the acronyms.

BRC is Blue Ribbon Collision. They work with all OHV groups across the US in legal channels prime-marly. There focus is spread across all of the various OHV types. Everything from Jeeps to Snowmobiles the petal bikes. They are great at what they do but they have the whole nation to deal with.

USA-ALL is the Utah specific version of BRC. They work on all types of OHV issues throughout Utah. Also very good at maximizing bang for the buck with a limited budget. But they address OHV in general terms. Off-road travel for ATV's and Snow machines take the majority of their efforts. As so they should that is where the majority of their money comes from.

U4WDA is the Utah four wheel drive association. We focus on issues that involve full size off-road travel. We support both BRC and USA-ALL both monetarily and through our promotion efforts. We also organize many land use events and act as a comunication tool between the 4x4 clubs and land managers.

Then we get into all the 4x4 clubs and their efforts, ATV clubs etc...

The point is that everyone has the their own priorities, Their own focus and their own goals. While the goals overlap they are not exactly the same. My neighbor could care less about Rattlesnake and Constrictor as long as he can still take his quads out to 5 Mile Pass and drive around. I want those kept open because a dirt road is boring to me, I like to try to tip over. So no one group cannot represent everyones needs completely. Support them all or pick one but understand that the larger goal is the same and they all do good work. Sorry if it is confusing.

Okay what can I do to help? Meat is right we need a list and some direction to get started.

Open positions on the U4WDA board:
Public Relations and Communications Director. As explain above we need help getting the word out.
Membership Director. Process and mail out new member packets as well as reminder letters to expiring members.
United Four Wheel Drive Association Delegate. Filled! Keep in touch with the national organization and repot back at the monthly meetings.
Land Use Director. Coordinate and record land use efforts.
Webmaster. Do web stuff. Update the U4 site.
Quartermaster. Keep track of banners, T's and such.

None of these positions require much time. Maybe 2 hours a week. Lots of on the job training available.

Are there any meetings in the southern part of the state?

Or up north? North davis or Weber county?

We always have a conference call for all the meetings. We also have Vp's in every corner of the state. Most of the on the round work is done by member clubs. Which is what U4 is made up of. So one meeting a month and wheeling the rest not too hard.

I don't want this to turn into a ***** session thread. I am trying to solicit truthful answers to simple question. While nobody is perfect we are all volunteers and we do our best. Your level of involvement is completely up to you but you should know it is not as difficult or time consuming as one might think.

I was hesitant at get involved at first. Unsure of how I would be received. Not certain of how I could help. I have been involved for about a year. I look to the other members on the board for support. U4WDA is a great group of people. The whole experience has been extremely rewarding.
 
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Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
Yes, but i think the point is if we were as organized as the weenies,
the money could possibly be put to more use.
Less chiefs more indians. If that offends anyone (incuding chiefs or indians)
It's not intended to.
U4WDA does great things, And i am a member, But I also agree with James K
about a bad feeling sometimes.
And i'll say it again. I like what U4WDA does.


Come to the meetings! Say so! GET MORE INDIANS!!! You'll see where every cent goes.

I take a good deal of umbrage to the whole philosophy of "too many chiefs", because it's just not the case... and I'm not really talking about this post, I mean in general.

The lack of manpower is a really big problem. Less than a thousand people are members of U4WDA at any given time, and that's AN INCREASE over past years membership. That's f**king pathetic. Nothing is perfect, but the utter lack of involved wheelers is a HUGE problem. If every one of RME's members spent $50 and joined U4, USA-ALL, and BRC, that would make a big impact. If 100 people showed up to every event held, that would make a big impact.

And yes, if 100 people b*tch about each group on the web, that has a big impact too. You think Massachusetts greenies are crying about the groups that get their money? I doubt it. I'm in NY right now and let me tell you, general wisdom is definitely green-leaning-- not because people here are envirotards, but because the propaganda is effective. People that I've tlalked to on various issues have been reasonable, but they absorb leftist propaganda without thought, until they're challenged.

We are fighting for our freedom every day, because the default position is to take the environmentalist's side. That's what the BLM, the Forest Service, all those agencies, are: created to manage/preserve/conserve/restrict the wilderness. It's an uphill battle, and I think sitting on the sidelines disagreeing is just sort of useless. Commit to helping, spend the tiny bit of annual money it would take!

and so forth. :greg:
 

Medsker

2024 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon 392
Location
Herriman, UT
I think you would get more volunteers if you specified what you need. If people can read a list of things that need to be done, they can put a finger on one and say "I can do that". Where as an open ended "we need help" is vague. For an example, look at how many people show up for fence builds, clean up days and trail marking.

I have to agree with this. I also have to say laziness is a part of it on my side. But I can't tell you how many times I hear about "we're" going to fight such and such issue or "we're" going to protest on capital hill over such and such and then I never hear about it again. This may mean that I'm getting old and can't figure out how to keep track of things but I think it is because either the threat is made and not carried out or it is carried out and no one knows about it. Either way it is not an effective way to do things...especially in a day and age when we have things like "e-mail lists" or whatever you call them. I was on a e-mail list for U4WDA for a while but it had very little to do with events and was more for the ten or so friends to pass around personal info.

Just my 2 cents. Medsker
 

Don B

formerly rebarguy
Location
Southern Utah
Are there any meetings in the southern part of the state? What is the current situation of the sand hollow park trails? I was there this weekend and there was trash around and people are making more trails all over. Is there a way to get this organized so these trails can stay open? Hate to put it on someone but most of the problems i could see is the "IRRESPONSIBLE USERS!!!!". Which is similar to the problem the kanab boys fixed in hogs canyon in kanab.

PM sent
 

Milner

formerly "rckcrlr"
The point is that everyone has the their own priorities, Their own focus and their own goals. While the goals overlap they are not exactly the same. My neighbor could care less about Rattlesnake and Constrictor as long as he can still take his quads out to 5 Mile Pass and drive around. I want those kept open because a dirt road is boring to me, I like to try to tip over. So no one group cannot represent everyones needs completely. Support them all or pick one but understand that the larger goal is the same and they all do good work. Sorry if it is confusing.

I see this as exactly the problem....But even within our own ranks....One guy will fight tooth and nail to keep Moab Rim open but could careless about RS, or the Hammers....We need to set aside our personal priorities and look at the bigger picture. It is not praticle/possible to support all the organizations and all the individual tasks. For the most part we are working with BLM and National land managers. Keeping that ATV/Snowmobile/Mtn Bike/Single track open is just as important to our cause as keeping Moab Rim or RS open, is. Any closure is just one more step down the path to closing it all. True we need to pick our battles. but SOMETIMES WE NEED TO FIGHT A BATTLE THAT DOES NOT BENEFIT US PERSONALLY! (This is not directed at any one person or organization! Just something to think about) As long as we all persue our personal agenda's we will not have the strength/power/money to make the impact on policy we need to. It is not about you or me, it is about US. Back to the marketing side of it....I agree the greenies market themselves well! The promote a group ethic, and have made it cool to be an "enviromentalist." How, by apealling to the masses, not the by addressing the agendas of each little group....
 

Seth

These go to 11
As long as we all persue our personal agenda's we will not have the strength/power/money to make the impact on policy we need to.

In an ideal world I agree. In the real world people communicate in groups, forums and clubs that are centered on one specific type of travel. So communication becomes a huge issue.

Look at it in these terms. Canyon Country 4x4 has a member that is ticketed by the BLM for traveling what is historically a RS277 road. Where does this individual turn for help with a lawsuit? He turns to his club which does fundraisers. The club turns to U4WDA, which would not have heard of this unless the club asked. U4 disperses funds for the fight and lets all of you know of the situation. U4 uses its contacts with USA-ALL and BRC to see if there is funding available. BRC and USA-ALL would have never heard that this is happening with out the communication train.

We are inherently a down up communication model. This is due to the fact that we are trying to defend existing plans. Someone has to be in the field seeing what is going on. Since we do not file pointless, arbitrary lawsuits to stir the pot and see if we can get something closed like the other side. We must react to what is presented. This takes dedicated people with their ear to the ground.

On the flip-side, when someone organizes a clean-up or other service project that group tends to work within their social group on projects that pertain directly to their interests. This is because of two very important factors time and communication. First of all everyone only has so much time to dedicate and secondly they only hear of projects in their social circle. I do a ton of fundraising for MS. Why? Because I have it and it is of interest to me directly. I donate much more and use my social network to raise funds for this cause. On the flip-side when I post up here on RME for that cause the thread is dead. I am not bagging on anyone. It is all a matter of priorities. Everyone has their cross to bare and they will fight for what is close to them.

I gues what I am trying to say is that we can't get tied up in how it "should be", rather we need to work within the existing system to make it better.
 
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