Which Drivetrain Setup?

Cascadia

Undecided
Location
Orem, Utah
I'm thinking about building a buggy during the summer and possibly winter. I'm wanting to do air shocks but if coilovers are in the budget at the time I will go with them instead. I want the wheelbase around 110 inches. Before I start stock piling parts though I need to decide what drivetrain setup to go with.

I don't want to have to do upgrades year after year but I don't want to break the bank either. I'd like to have about 40 inch tires. What engine, trans, t-case(s) and axles would you go with?

If I'm missing any details that you would need to know, let me know.
 

UFAB

Well-Known Member
Location
Lehi Ut
5.3/4L60E/Atlas

Dana 60 front, 14 bolt rear shaved

4 qty ADS 2.125" Remote res coilovers and 8 springs for $1950 new

4 qty ADS 2.5" remote res non emulsion air shocks $1200 new

4 qty ADS 2.125 emulsion air shocks $760 new

Options for any budget..
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
what does "break the bank" mean? What's your budget? $10k, $15k, $20k? $40k? In my opinion, 40" tires really require 1-ton axles (d60, 14b). Anything less and you'll be breaking all the time. Buying a pre-built buggy would save a lot of money, but it sounds like you want to do the building yourself. A buggy is a pretty big first step for building your own rig. It can be done, but it's definitely going to be a learning experience. If you stuck with 35-37" tires I think you'd be able to keep it a lot cheaper and it'd still be plenty capable. I can only speak from my experience with toyotas, but 37's hold up a LOT better than 40's under a toyota. With 40's and tons under a yota, your next weak link becomes the t-case input and output shafts. I think about Rick's little yota on 33's and that thing goes everywhere, and it's still technically street legal. I think a little rig like his could be built for under $8k. It'll still do 90% of the trails in utah. I know you're not asking, but it's fun to dream... if I were to build a buggy I'd do a toyota platform (obviously, I'm pretty biased). I'd do a trail gear 3-link front, 4-link rear (pretty easy for the noob builder to do), and I'd keep the tires at 35-37" max. 35's and you really don't have to worry about much breakage. Robby's rig is a great example: plenty capable, cheap, and still leaf sprung. It won't do 100 MPH in the desert, but it'll crawl all the nasty trails around here, and still be fun on the little ones.

What are your goals for the buggy? Go-fast, or go slow? What trails do you want to build it for? I assume you don't care if it's street legal or not. 1, 2, or 4 seater? Or do you want a KOH buggy for $5k? One thing I learned from Angelo ("81 yota, flat belly, 37s) is that it was so capable that my favorite trails became boring. AF Canyon was nowhere near a challenge. It was kinda pointless. Rattlesnake and constrictor became boring because it went wherever I pointed it. I had to take that thing to Moab or St. George to really push it. Another thing I"ve learned is that you should wheel rigs similar in build to your buddies. If you all have samurais on 31's, you'll all have fun together. If everyone has sami's on 31's and you have a buggy on 40's, it won't be fun wheeling with them. I'm not trying to talk you out of a big buggy, it's just something to think about.
 
Last edited:

Cascadia

Undecided
Location
Orem, Utah
Ha. No KOH buggy for me. I want a 4 seater but the back 2 seats will be a bench for little people. I want to go slow on technical rocks or any trail really in st. George or Moab. Not including the chassis I want to try and keep it around $5-6k. Which means an atlas is out of the budget. I would run 37's if I had to. And I could always run a D60 front 14b rear with stock shafts until the needed upgraded. Is there another good t case that bolts up behind a 4l60e that has decent gearing?

I know a buggy would be a lot of work. I won't be building the chassis, I have a line on one that I've wanted for years. I have plenty of friends and there is so much info online now that if I get stuck it can be figured out.
 

I Lean

Mbryson's hairdresser
Vendor
Location
Utah
Need more details. (like Steve asked) Are you wanting a from-scratch buggy, or a converted existing vehicle? Starting with something can save you a lot of money and work, but might limit your choices for easy swaps in some areas. Also, what ballpark budget are you planning on? (that can affect a TON in these planning stages)

Either way, the little bit of money difference between coilovers and air shocks won't make much difference overall. You'll save a few hundred, but if you're spending tens of thousands it's just a drop in the bucket.

Edit: you posted while I was typing. $5-$6K means you need to find an existing project to buy, so forget all I said above. :)
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
Ha. No KOH buggy for me. I want a 4 seater but the back 2 seats will be a bench for little people. I want to go slow on technical rocks or any trail really in st. George or Moab. Not including the chassis I want to try and keep it around $5-6k. Which means an atlas is out of the budget. I would run 37's if I had to. And I could always run a D60 front 14b rear with stock shafts until the needed upgraded. Is there another good t case that bolts up behind a 4l60e that has decent gearing?

I know a buggy would be a lot of work. I won't be building the chassis, I have a line on one that I've wanted for years. I have plenty of friends and there is so much info online now that if I get stuck it can be figured out.

ok, cool. So Champagne on a beer budget? :D

Keep in mind that 40" tires new cost $2600. So there goes half your budget. Used 40" tires go for around $1200-1500, there goes 1/4 your budget. Not trying to dissuade you, just trying to help put it into perspective. At that price, your only real option is to buy a buggy and either wheel it as is, or strip it for parts and dump another $5-10k into making the rig you want.
 
Last edited:

Cascadia

Undecided
Location
Orem, Utah
Need more details. (like Steve asked) Are you wanting a from-scratch buggy, or a converted existing vehicle? Starting with something can save you a lot of money and work, but might limit your choices for easy swaps in some areas. Also, what ballpark budget are you planning on? (that can affect a TON in these planning stages)Either way, the little bit of money difference between coilovers and air shocks won't make much difference overall. You'll save a few hundred, but if you're spending tens of thousands it's just a drop in the bucket.Edit: you posted while I was typing. $5-$6K means you need to find an existing project to buy, so forget all I said above. :)
Tens of thousands is not in the near future! It would be nice though. Is there a front axle that can handle 37-39 inch tires that is not as hard to find as a d60 front? 2insane says a d44 is stronger, cheaper too. Haha.
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
Tens of thousands is not in the near future! It would be nice though. Is there a front axle that can handle 37-39 inch tires that is not as hard to find as a d60 front? 2insane says a d44 is stronger, cheaper too. Haha.

depends on the weight of the vehicle, hp, and driving habits, and how much $ you dump into a 44. I wouldn't want to wheel 37-39" tires with a stock d44, that's for sure. For your application, by the time you build a d44 up with alloy stuff, you might as well get a d60. Ok, I'll leave this thread alone for a while and let the others chime in...
 

skippy

Pretend Fabricator
Location
Tooele
FOA coilovers are an amazing product for the cheap price and definately sounds like they will fit in your budget
 

gorillaxj

Always building hardly wheeling
Location
SLC
Tens of thousands is not in the near future! It would be nice though. Is there a front axle that can handle 37-39 inch tires that is not as hard to find as a d60 front? 2insane says a d44 is stronger, cheaper too. Haha.

haha, that was a fun thread... Anyway not that I am an expert, but you could grab a ford super duty axle combo and run the D60 front(ball-joint) and 10.5" rear, which is also a good setup and can be found in a junk yard for 300 ish a pair, keeping it low cost but still strong. I would not run a D44 at all based on the fact your already talking 40's. 35-37 range sure. but build it stronger then "needed" now as you don't know where it will end up :)

I am a big fan of almost any Toyota drive train. I also like the Jeep 4.0L and AW4 combo, which could also be found pretty cheaply and then run a D300 with a 4-1 kit giving you some options for front/rear dig ect... or a doubler of some sort. Any make preference? or engine size?
 
Last edited:

Cascadia

Undecided
Location
Orem, Utah
I don't have to run 40's but it would be nice. I know 37's are a lot cheaper and would greatly reduce the cost of the buggy due to the other components being less beefy. Even toyota drivetrain is fine with me as long as it can handle that size tire, which I know it can. I wouldn't buy new tires because there are so many good used sets out there.

For the record, I know a 60 is stronger than a 44.
 

Cascadia

Undecided
Location
Orem, Utah
haha, that was a fun thread... Anyway not that I am an expert, but you could grab a ford super duty axle combo and run the D60 front(ball-joint) and 10.5" rear, which is also a good setup and can be found in a junk yard for 300 ish a pair, keeping it low cost but still strong. I would not run a D44 at all based on the fact your already talking 40's. 35-37 range sure. but build it stronger then "needed" now as you don't know where it will end up :)

I am a big fan of almost any Toyota drive train. I also like the Jeep 4.0L and AW4 combo, which could also be found pretty cheaply and then run a D300 with a 4-1 kit giving you some options for front/rear dig ect... or a doubler of some sort. Any make preference? or engine size?

I have no favoritism towards any drivetrain except for I don't want sami stuff. Not powerful enough. But I have wheeled everything else and I am fine with it.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
The only thing I'll say is forget the idea of not upgrading later on a $5-6K budget. To not upgrade, you're talking atleast a stock 60 in the front but you're already now talking about other axles. My advice, be patient and start gathering parts (or parts vehicles), don't set a timeline to be finished by, that will always cost you more than necessary. You can find killer deals on axles, even 60s. When I built my buggy, I picked up my front Ford KP HP60 for something like $600. It needed to be put back together, but that wasn't a big deal since I planned to tear down any axle I got. I was in to my drivetrain about $1000 (4.3L, TH350, 203/205 doubler) and that was for the price of the doubler ($750 at the time) and the tranny rebuild. Even building everything on a budget, I was still in to my buggy an easy $20K...probably closer to $30K. So keep that in mind.

Now that I start thinking about it, I personally don't think it's possible to build a buggy (chassis excluded, which really isn;t the expensive part) for that price range if you're starting with no parts. I'd love to see you prove me wrong, but I don't think it's possible.
 

benjy

Rarely wrenches
Supporting Member
Location
Moab
Buggy and $5-6k... :-\

I almost spent that much in consumables on our jeep build and I didn't even have to mess with engine/tranny. I guess it could be possible if you started with a built rig and just built a chassis around all of that existing drivetrain.

edit: ^100% agree with Caleb. Excluding tools and initial purchase price of the jeep, we're into ours around $25k (and it still needs some stuff).
 
Last edited:

Cascadia

Undecided
Location
Orem, Utah
Buggy and $5-6k... :-\

I almost spent that much in consumables on our jeep build and I didn't even have to mess with engine/tranny. I guess it could be possible if you started with a built rig and just built a chassis around all of that existing drivetrain.

I was hoping I wouldn't hear these things from buggy owners but oh well, it happens. A guy can dream. I can still collect parts though and try and get something together or like a few have recommended, I can go buy something that is already built and throw it in the chassis that I like. Only difference from most rigs that are available already built and what I want to put in my rig is they are mostly on leafs but that can be changed. Maybe I'll start looking into a few built rigs then that someone needs to unload and throw it all into the chassis and link it. What would you guys say a cost to link a buggy front and rear with air shocks would be? Materials wise, not labor.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
edit: ^100% agree with Caleb. Excluding tools and initial purchase price of the jeep, we're into ours around $25k (and it still needs some stuff).


lol, exact same as me. When I built my YJ (one of my rigs before my buggy) I had receipts for $25K and I never finished that rig. I ended up stripping the parts and selling the tub, frame, rear axle, etc to mbryson (that's what has turned in to his current silver Jeep). I also stopped keeping my receipts on builds after my YJ, it was too painful to see how much I had dumped in to them :rofl:
 

driver920

Active Member
Location
West Valley
well as others have stated buying something as a starting platform in my opion is the best way to go i bought the yoda for 4k with no trans and no T-case (wish i would have offered 5k and got the case and tranny) but i have all major componets beside and from day one my plan has been to use the truggy i bought to test and perfect my ideas of what a rig should be and should do i have owned it for almost a year and i have put about 1.5k in to moving axles changing the suspenion and getting parts together for the next phase of the build it came with d60 yukon gears and shafts, 14 bolt, lockers in both, 38 inche swampers almost new, a set of beadlocks, a very good running 350 small block, duel trans coolers and duel radiators the problem that i have with the whole platform is the same problem with any bought rig i have to work around what someone else thought the rig should be to make what i beleive it should be now i am in no way saying it wasnt a good rig out of the gate the first time i took it out after i bought it i walked up waynes world with no problems at all. i beleive fully in building your rig to suit you and buying one that has the parts you are looking for can be a good place to start the things i have changed on mine have made it more capable for the way i drive and anyone who has seen my rear suspenion work likes the way it flexxes and concidering i am in to the whole changeover on the rear about 350 bucks it is awesome and one day i will have it where i want it and put it all in a tube frame and then the whole process will start over i beleive you can build a buggy for 6k and it will do most everything you would like it to do but as i am finding out the differance between a 6k buggy and a 11k buggy is 5k worth of upgrades
 

Bart

Registered User
Location
Arm Utah
I agree with UFAB on the 5.3/4L60e/Atlas.

I hate to be the neysayer here but.... you are attempting an unreachable goal. Your budget does not come close to reaching your goal. If you are serious about a buggy, buy one used for a fraction of the cost to build one. Look for a project like "The Goat" to finish. I had a budget of $20 for the Willys buggy and that turned out to be about half.
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
I was hoping I wouldn't hear these things from buggy owners but oh well, it happens. A guy can dream. I can still collect parts though and try and get something together or like a few have recommended, I can go buy something that is already built and throw it in the chassis that I like. Only difference from most rigs that are available already built and what I want to put in my rig is they are mostly on leafs but that can be changed. Maybe I'll start looking into a few built rigs then that someone needs to unload and throw it all into the chassis and link it. What would you guys say a cost to link a buggy front and rear with air shocks would be? Materials wise, not labor.



I bet you could take my rig and link it for about $1500 if you didn't do coilovers (I have coils that could go with the rig--just starting to buy rod ends, control arms and heims but haven't bought anything yet). Just a TJ kind of lift front/rear. Coilovers would add to that cost but you could build it a little at a time. If it doesn't sell in the next few months, I'm going to do that to just get it a few inches lower which will make my ingress/egress that much better for my "handicap".
 
Top