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Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
02SE said:
As for Trump. I don't care for him personally, but I will damn sure vote for him and his policies, over the tax and spend, blundering Biden. Inflation is up approx. 30%, since old Joe got in and started implementing and pushing his policies. For me, it's first and foremost about Bidenflation.
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The inflation we are experiencing is only SLIGHTLY related to Biden. the .gov (Trump included with his COVID spending) started the inflation machine long before Biden came into play. You can only print free money for so long before inflation comes home to roost. Blaming this all on Biden and his economic policies, when Congress basically controls the purse strings of the country is VERY short sided

Biden certainly helped with his BS Covid spending, but he is only partially to blame....and I would say less then 25%
 
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02SE

Well-Known Member
Location
Millcreek, UT
Pike2350 said:
The inflation we are experiencing is only SLIGHTLY related to Biden. the .gov (Trump included with his COVID spending) started the inflation machine long before Biden came into play. You can only print free money for so long before inflation comes home to roost. Blaming this all on Biden and his economic policies, when Congress basically controls the purse strings of the country is VERY short sided

Biden certainly helped with his BS Covid spending, but he is only partially to blame....and I would say less then 25%
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Don't forget that biden's first day in office, he signed Executive Orders effecting our then-current and future energy production. Inflation which had been holding steady up to that date, then started to climb. Do you recall biden begging the Saudi's and Venezuela to pump more oil, as his energy policies were and are hurting our energy production and the economy? They declined his begging... To say nothing of the numerous trillion+ dollar spending bills his administration has pushed through.

I'd lay the inflation we've been experiencing, almost squarely on his policies.
 
P

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
02SE said:
Don't forget that biden's first day in office, he signed Executive Orders effecting our then-current and future energy production. Inflation which had been holding steady up to that date, then started to climb. Do you recall biden begging the Saudi's and Venezuela to pump more oil, as his energy policies were and are hurting our energy production and the economy? They declined his begging... To say nothing of the numerous trillion+ dollar spending bills his administration has pushed through.

I'd lay the inflation we've been experiencing, almost squarely on his policies.
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His first day in office was in the beginning (relatively) to COVID. If you honestly believe the energy production is what is causing inflation you are way off. While it is contributing some, it is not the main culprit, nor is his policy much of a reason for the energy peice Inflation either.

If you lay this solely at his feet you are blind to the realities of economics. Nothing is that fast in the economy. Trump pumped BILLIONs into the economy (Biden as well) it takes awhile for the affects to work through the economy. Between "eye off the ball" fiscal policy by the fed (for YEARS), COVID money printing, we started paying the price in 2022....which is about when it shoudl've started happening. Anyone that knows anything about economics could see this coming 2+years ago. I have told numerous friends the fed has messed up long before COVID by not adjusting rates to have a weapon when it was needed. That is a big part of the problem. Trump, Biden, Obama, the Fed, and the general public all are guilty of inflation we have felt the last 2 years....to act like it is 'solely at Biden's feet. Is it being reality
 
johngottfredson

johngottfredson

Threat Level Midnight
Location
Alpine
Stephen said:
I'm not sold on JD Vance being Trumps VP choice. I read his book, Hillbilly Elegy when it came out because it strangely parallels the story of one branch of my family, just a generation removed. My grandfathers dirt poor Appalachian family moved from Kentucky (Drip Rock, in his case) to Middletown, Ohio to seek a better life but never really were able to escape the cycle of poverty. Fortunately my grandfather "married up", as they say, and was able to get out; but my mother was raised Warren County, OH so I have a bit of shared history with him.

Anyway, I think that Vance has an interesting life story. When he entered politics I thought that he might be a good voice for the white working class of Ohio and the greater region, but sadly I just think he's fallen into the MAGA trap and has become a bit of a bomb thrower. I particularly dislike his position on Ukraine and general MAGA opinion that the US is a second rate power in decline and needs to step back from the world stage. While I know that speaks to the Trump base voter, I was really hoping he'd pick Glenn Youngkin of Virginia or Doug Burgum of North Dakota. Two people that are a little more centrist and appealing to the "suburbs" as they say.

Its also an interesting pick from a raw political perspective. Trump will carry Ohio no matter what, so having Vance on the ticket doesn't really help there. Where having someone like Youngkin could have really helped maybe swing Virginia and would have broadened his support to skeptical conservative voters, sorta like Pence did in 2016. Oh well.

Despite all the insanity we've observed in the last three weeks, its still a 50/50 race come November. The convention is kinda Trumps last chance to convince skeptical moderates like me that he deserves my vote, but with the Vance pick I'm guessing he thinks he doesn't need our votes.

Before people go and accuse me of being a Biden supporter, stop. Take a deep breath and realize that you can dislike both candidates and refuse to vote for either. This is a choice one can make in our great nation.
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From what I’ve read, Trump picked him because he’s super duper Trump loyal, and is good on his feet talking about MAGA stuff. Pence was a politically calculated pick, Trump feels confident this time choosing who he likes, period. I thought Younkin would have been the move.
 
0

02SE

Well-Known Member
Location
Millcreek, UT
Pike2350 said:
His first day in office was in the beginning (relatively) to COVID. If you honestly believe the energy production is what is causing inflation you are way off. While it is contributing some, it is not the main culprit, nor is his policy much of a reason for the energy peice Inflation either.

If you lay this solely at his feet you are blind to the realities of economics. Nothing is that fast in the economy. Trump pumped BILLIONs into the economy (Biden as well) it takes awhile for the affects to work through the economy. Between "eye off the ball" fiscal policy by the fed (for YEARS), COVID money printing, we started paying the price in 2022....which is about when it shoudl've started happening. Anyone that knows anything about economics could see this coming 2+years ago. I have told numerous friends the fed has messed up long before COVID by not adjusting rates to have a weapon when it was needed. That is a big part of the problem. Trump, Biden, Obama, the Fed, and the general public all are guilty of inflation we have felt the last 2 years....to act like it is 'solely at Biden's feet. Is it being reality
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Yeah, no.

I recall the first big scare from Covid in Utah, was march 11, 2020 when it was announced rudy gobert and donovan mitchell had tested positive for Covid. Now I don't follow the Jazz, but my Dad had just left the hospital at that time, and had moved into a skilled nursing facility. It became impossible to get in to see him. I was the first at that facility to visit with a patient, by looking through a window, while talking on a phone. So Covid started to be an issue in this country, almost a year before Joe took office.

BTW, I'm a former business owner, who after being a mechanic, got my MBA, and started my own business. So I'm well aware of how the economy works. Inflation was almost nil due to Covid, but then Joe got in and started implementing his crap policies. Inflation started increasing almost immediately (by February 2021) in response.

I lay the blame where it belongs.

Here you go: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/
 
Stephen

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
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Never Far From Nowhere
johngottfredson said:
From what I’ve read, Trump picked him because he’s super duper Trump loyal, and is good on his feet talking about MAGA stuff. Pence was a politically calculated pick, Trump feels confident this time choosing who he likes, period. I thought Younkin would have been the move.
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Yeah, he's decided that Vance is his successor who will carry the MAGA brand forward past 2028.

The more I think about the Vance pick, the more dismayed I've become. There was a fleeting moment after Trumps conviction and the assassination attempt when I thought, "Yeah, maybe I'll vote for him because this shit has gone too far." But Vance just refocuses things. We're talking about a guy who believes in Big Government Conservatism, which is oxymoronic. He doesn't believe in cutting entitlements, which just means we're still on the fast track to a fiscal crisis in the next few years. He's all about using the power of the state to punish corporations he disagrees with. He doesn't think free trade is a force for good and economic prosperity. And for me, his worst offense is continuing the Obama/Trump belief that attempting to bolster our allies and interests abroad is bad, so the best thing we can do is cower behind the oceans with our head in the sand and hope that since we're not the big man on campus anymore no one will bother us; which shows a complete lack of understanding of how geopolitics work.

So I can't vote for a Trump-Vance ticket. I just can't do it. And while my vote in Utah doesn't really make a difference, there are tens of thousands of moderates like me in the country who are probably having the same debate with themselves. This pick was dumb on Trumps part and makes his path back to the White House just that much harder.
 
P

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
02SE said:
Yeah, no.

I recall the first big scare from Covid in Utah, was march 11, 2020 when it was announced rudy gobert and donovan mitchell had tested positive for Covid. Now I don't follow the Jazz, but my Dad had just left the hospital at that time, and had moved into a skilled nursing facility. It became impossible to get in to see him. I was the first at that facility to visit with a patient, by looking through a window, while talking on a phone. So Covid started to be an issue in this country, almost a year before Joe took office.

BTW, I'm a former business owner, who after being a mechanic, got my MBA, and started my own business. So I'm well aware of how the economy works. Inflation was almost nil due to Covid, but then Joe got in and started implementing his crap policies. Inflation started increasing almost immediately (by February 2021) in response.

I lay the blame where it belongs.

Here you go: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/
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Thanks for the history lesson. I recall how COVID started and where I was as well...not sure what that had to do with anything. I also recall where I was when the earthquake hit SLC few days later.

Apparently the 9 months after CoVID hit had no affect on inflation but the 1st day of Biden presidency did. Got it bud. Also, an MBA, and starting your own business does not prove you know economics just like going to an Ivy League school shows you are smart....especially in today's world. Not that it matters but I my bachelor's is in Econmics.....but that doesn't mean I know everything about it either.

Just give it up. Inflation is not immediate...it takes time for trillions of free printed money to work through the economy and begin the inflation process.

A little more detail for you. Trump signed over 3.3 TRILLION of COVID spending into law before he "left" office. It was over 5 Acts or bills, but total was north of 3.3 Trillion out of the estimated 5 trillion in overall COVID spending. So keep blaming Bidenomics on Inflation that so coi incidentally started pick up steam about 9-12 months after Trump left office.

I don't even blame Trump for it all. The fed has a lot of blame as well. Keeping interest rates so low for nearly 2 decades really hurt as well. Due to this, they had no way to boost the economy without printing even more $. If they had done their job "correctly" (subjective term) they would have raised rates in the mid 2010's a little. Normal rates likely should've gone up 200 basis points before Covid hit. That would've given them a few options to cut rates to to try and stimulate things without the printing press...but they did not....so they have a fair bit of culpability in the recent inflation as well. No one wanted to see that. Everyone loved that the economy was humming along on credit and debt...but at some point the bill comes due.

You are blinded by your dislike for Biden (I don't like him at all either but I can be rational about reality. You want to blame everything bad in today's world on Biden and talk as if Trump has done/will do nothing wrong. You are blindly loyal to Trump and it shows in just about every post you make in this political thread. I mean you already eluded to divine Intervention being a possible reason Trump wasn't assassinated.
 
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02SE

Well-Known Member
Location
Millcreek, UT
Pike2350 said:
Thanks for the history lesson. I recall how COVID started and where I was as well...not sure what that had to do with anything. I also recall where I was when the earthquake hit SLC few days later.

Apparently the 9 months after CoVID hit had no affect on inflation but the 1st day of Biden presidency did. Got it bud. Also, an MBA, and starting your own business does not prove you know economics just like going to an Ivy League school shows you are smart....especially in today's world. Not that it matters but I my bachelor's is in Econmics.....but that doesn't mean I know everything about it either.

Just give it up. Inflation is not immediate...it takes time for trillions of free printed money to work through the economy and begin the inflation process.

A little more detail for you. Trump signed over 3.3 TRILLION of COVID spending into law before he "left" office. It was over 5 Acts or bills, but total was north of 3.3 Trillion out of the estimated 5 trillion in overall COVID spending. So keep blaming Bidenomics on Inflation that so coi incidentally started pick up steam about 9-12 months after Trump left office.

I don't even blame Trump for it all. The fed has a lot of blame as well. Keeping interest rates so low for nearly 2 decades really hurt as well. Due to this, they had no way to boost the economy without printing even more $. If they had done their job "correctly" (subjective term) they would have raised rates in the mid 2010's a little. Normal rates likely should've gone up 200 basis points before Covid hit. That would've given them a few options to cut rates to to try and stimulate things without the printing press...but they did not....so they have a fair bit of culpability in the recent inflation as well. No one wanted to see that. Everyone loved that the economy was humming along on credit and debt...but at some point the bill comes due.

You are blinded by your dislike for Biden (I don't like him at all either but I can be rational about reality. You want to blame everything bad in today's world on Biden and talk as if Trump has done/will do nothing wrong. You are blindly loyal to Trump and it shows in just about every post you make in this political thread. I mean you already eluded to divine Intervention being a possible reason Trump wasn't assassinated.
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What it has to do with anything, is that Covid didn't start on Joe's first day in office. Not even relatively. I'm not sure why you posited that... Possibly making excuses for biden, and blinded by your dislike for Trump?

Trump to me is the lesser of two evils. Since no one else has even a chance of beating the big-government biden machine, I'll vote for the chance of that happening by voting for Trump

What I am am bothered by, is the attempt to re-write history. I'm not sure why you were trying to imply Covid started with biden taking office...

The mainstream media has certainly tried to imply that inflation started climbing only after Russia invaded Ukraine. When anyone paying attention knows that's simply not true. For the record, I doubt Russia would've invaded Ukraine, if putin hadn't witnessed the biden administrations utterly incompetent pull-out from Afghanistan.

The bottom line for me, is that this country and the world (certainly Ukraine) were better off during the Trump Presidency.
 
P

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
02SE said:
What it has to do with anything, is that Covid didn't start on Joe's first day in office. Not even relatively. I'm not sure why you posited that... Possibly making excuses for biden, and blinded by your dislike for Trump?

Trump to me is the lesser of two evils. Since no one else has even a chance of beating the big-government biden machine, I'll vote for the chance of that happening by voting for Trump

What I am am bothered by, is the attempt to re-write history. I'm not sure why you were trying to imply Covid started with biden taking office...

The mainstream media has certainly tried to imply that inflation started climbing only after Russia invaded Ukraine. When anyone paying attention knows that's simply not true. For the record, I doubt Russia would've invaded Ukraine, if putin hadn't witnessed the biden administrations utterly incompetent pull-out from Afghanistan.

The bottom line for me, is that this country and the world (certainly Ukraine) were better off during the Trump Presidency.
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Now you have officially lost me. You started with the history lesson of COVID. I never claimed COVID started on or during Biden's first day of presidency. I stated that the free money that was printed DUE TO COVID was one of thr major factors to inflation. You want to blame Biden for inflation. You said so numerous times, disregarding the TRILLIONs of free money that Trump help pump into the economy as if it had no affect.
YOU basically said that inflation started because of Biden and is executive orders on his first day in office. I was pointing out that Biden's first day was still less then 1 year into COVID and the monetary affects of the $ and impact from it had not yet taken place....but you ignored all of that.

Don't forget that biden's first day in office, he signed Executive Orders effecting our then-current and future energy production. Inflation which had been holding steady up to that date, then started to climb. Do you recall biden begging the Saudi's and Venezuela to pump more oil, as his energy policies were and are hurting our energy production and the economy? They declined his begging... To say nothing of the numerous trillion+ dollar spending bills his administration has pushed through.

I'd lay the inflation we've been experiencing, almost squarely on his policies.
Click to expand...

So, in your mind, Biden's Trillions caused inflation while Trumps' and other outside factors had little to do with it.

You disregard and unwillingness to acknowledge or assign blame or any wrong doing to Trump shows that you are the one making excuses and are instead blinded by your dislike for Biden.

I dislike both men....A LOT. I dislike Trump more because, to me, he is way more worried about his Ego then the country as a whole. I think Biden is crooked no doubt, but I think Biden's is a bit more crooked by opportunity while Trump seeks it out to inflate is ego in various ways. I just don't call one side out as being the reason for everything because it is ridiculous to ignore the wrongs by the other side....it shows too much bias and as I stated, that willingness to acknowledge your own side has plenty of fault in the BS chaos, while blaming the other side is trying to destroy America is how we crumble as a country.
 
 
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Cody

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
Trump is a religion. His followers are going to defend him in the same way. Deflect accountability, reassign blame, ignore facts, defend from and attack the opposition relentlessly.

The positions don't need to be defensible because they have faith he is The One because he told them so. He's Taylor Swift for white conservatives... He can sing and dance just enough to get his message to the audience it was deliberately and perfectly curated for. And it was, trust and believe. In the same mold as Swiftys, his followers search every corner of the world to manufactur outrage at the treatment of their demagogue and make excuses for him. I mean, we were literally just told about the outrage created by Jimmy Kimmel and then followed by an argument based on logic thinner than my hair line. Unpopular opinion alert, but his supporters rage about what pussies liberals are with their unrelenting desire to reduce harm on marginalized populations, but Trumpys are literally the most emotionally fragile snowflakes in our country. Literally everything is an attack and they react with petty name calling and raising their voices (like my 5 year old) to spew the same poorly thought out positions they've been fed on their preferred, totally unbiased and 100% not an echo chamber source of truth (maybe they could even call it Truth!.. .oh wait....).

Really, the next step to full blown religion is deification... And now people are calling it divine that he wasnt killed. It would almost be entertaining if it weren't so scary and predictable.
 
P

Pike2350

Registered User
Location
Salt Lake City
Stephen said:
Yeah, he's decided that Vance is his successor who will carry the MAGA brand forward past 2028.

The more I think about the Vance pick, the more dismayed I've become. There was a fleeting moment after Trumps conviction and the assassination attempt when I thought, "Yeah, maybe I'll vote for him because this shit has gone too far." But Vance just refocuses things. We're talking about a guy who believes in Big Government Conservatism, which is oxymoronic. He doesn't believe in cutting entitlements, which just means we're still on the fast track to a fiscal crisis in the next few years. He's all about using the power of the state to punish corporations he disagrees with. He doesn't think free trade is a force for good and economic prosperity. And for me, his worst offense is continuing the Obama/Trump belief that attempting to bolster our allies and interests abroad is bad, so the best thing we can do is cower behind the oceans with our head in the sand and hope that since we're not the big man on campus anymore no one will bother us; which shows a complete lack of understanding of how geopolitics work.

So I can't vote for a Trump-Vance ticket. I just can't do it. And while my vote in Utah doesn't really make a difference, there are tens of thousands of moderates like me in the country who are probably having the same debate with themselves. This pick was dumb on Trumps part and makes his path back to the White House just that much harder.
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I've also been thinking about this a fair bit. Why he didn't pick a more moderate conservative, I think has more to do with his legacy then anything else. I personally feel he is wanting to become the "Kingmaker" of the MAGA republicans when he is no longer eligible for president.

He is setting up Vance to be next in line, or at least start the process in being the one the Republicans come groveling to, to get his blessing. A more moderate be less inclined to bow to Trump after his is no longer president.

So I think this is setting up a Godfather like scenario for him in the future. Not that it has paid off so great for many candidates over the past 3 years with his endorsement.
 
johngottfredson

johngottfredson

Threat Level Midnight
Location
Alpine
Pike2350 said:
I've also been thinking about this a fair bit. Why he didn't pick a more moderate conservative, I think has more to do with his legacy then anything else. I personally feel he is wanting to become the "Kingmaker" of the MAGA republicans when he is no longer eligible for president.

He is setting up Vance to be next in line, or at least start the process in being the one the Republicans come groveling to, to get his blessing. A more moderate be less inclined to bow to Trump after his is no longer president.

So I think this is setting up a Godfather like scenario for him in the future. Not that it has paid off so great for many candidates over the past 3 years with his endorsement.
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I agree with this. Kind of bummed; with the satisfaction of seeing the democrats implode with Biden, and Trump’s seeming political maturity of staying out of the spotlight and letting them bury themselves, I have been the closest I’ve ever come to being interested in Trump and a Republican victory. JD Vance as a VP just reminds me that Trump is not serious about actual governing, he is still the same guy that makes all his decisions around power, punishing dissenters and rewarding fanatic loyalists.

If Vance was the VP on January 6th, he wouldn’t have acted like Pence. And that’s just what Trump is looking for, unquestioning commitment to the cult of MAGA.
 
Herzog

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wyoming
Wasn't Vance an adamant never trumper? I'm confused. The guy is on video stating such...? He stated that he would rather hold his nose and vote hillary in 2016... or something to that effect.
I'm actually confused as to why Trump picked him. He's globalist trash and his wife is in the pockets of Bill Gates.

Wildly conflicting info going about.
 
0

02SE

Well-Known Member
Location
Millcreek, UT
I mentioned Covid, because you said this:

Pike2350 said:
His first day in office was in the beginning (relatively) to COVID.
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Which was the reason for my, as you stated, "History Lesson" on Covid.

Apparently we'll have to agree to disagree on what had more effect and when on inflation.

For the record, I am not a "Trumpy" as our friend @Cody implied. I am a Libertarian, who generally votes Republican (unless and until Libertarians have a realistic chance of getting into office) because they have the platform that most closely aligns with minimal Government.

It's not Trump or Biden I'm for or against, it's the policies and ideology their political parties respectively represent.

Massive spending, open borders, law enforcement vilified, are just a few of the issues of what democrats have supported, that I find troubling.
 
Stephen

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
Location
Never Far From Nowhere
johngottfredson said:
If Vance was the VP on January 6th, he wouldn’t have acted like Pence. And that’s just what Trump is looking for, unquestioning commitment to the cult of MAGA.
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Yup, he has said as much. Which is another reason to be dismayed, he's clearly stated that he is willing to ignore the Constitution. But then again, so has Trump... and Biden... and Obama... and... :(

Herzog said:
Wasn't Vance an adamant never trumper? I'm confused. The guy is on video stating such...?
I'm actually confused as to why Trump picked him. He's globalist trash and his wife is in the pockets of Bill Gates.

Wildly conflicting info going about.
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He was a Never Trump guy until Trump endorsed him for Senate in 2022. Now he's all in.
Yes, an Ivy League investment banker seems an odd choice to lead the MAGAites.
 
johngottfredson

johngottfredson

Threat Level Midnight
Location
Alpine
Herzog said:
Wasn't Vance an adamant never trumper? I'm confused. The guy is on video stating such...? He stated that he would rather hold his nose and vote hillary in 2016... or something to that effect.
I'm actually confused as to why Trump picked him. He's globalist trash and his wife is in the pockets of Bill Gates.

Wildly conflicting info going about.
Click to expand...
Like many in the GOP, he was never Trump in 2016, three years out of law school. Once he wanted to get into politics, he saw Trump as the path in, so he changed his tune, got tight with Don Jr, went all in for Trump. He was one of the first to endorse Trump right after Jan 6th, and has been saying all the right things to get the VP nod for the past 4 yrs.
 
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