Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
...the wacko's in the BLM are using the desert tortoise to restrict ranchers in areas where they are not indigenous.

If you think this is bad, watch what happens if the Sage grouse get listed.

Sadly I think the CBD has the money and the legal power to get the Sage Grouse listed and it will wreak havoc on public lands for all users, a grim future for public land access that I'm absolutely not looking forward to. However can we point the finger at the BLM or FS for that happening? CBD and it's highly-funded and organized partner groups are in fact suing the BLM and FS right now and some wacko judge is going to potentially rule in their favor and in turn hand down a judgement to the BLM/FS/NPS saying to treat these areas as such per land policy acts that CBD and others have leaned to exploit. While I have not doubt there are plenty of anti-motorized folks within the BLM and they can obviously influence decisions... they don't make the law, they don't make the judgements and surely they don't get to decide which animals are on the endangered species list. Again, I'm not saying they are perfect, effective or ideal but all this BLM-rhetoric to me is akin to screaming at a police officer because the State of Utah law makers decided it was illegal to drive your dirtbike on the freeway. Right cause, wrong battle.
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
I love to see people question the government, and I love to see people exercising their right to free speech. I like to see peaceful demonstrations and protests. However, after seeing the video, I have no problems with what the BLM did tazing those people and pulling them out of the way of moving vehicles. I also think pulling the "cancer patient" card is cheesy. What does the fact that someone has had cancer in their past have to do with how the blm should treat them? If someone is stepping into harm's way, or attacking LEOs (or their dogs) in a protest, then I would expect the LEOs to contain the threat.

Now, that's not to say LEOs are always in the right or that we should all bow down to them. However, seeing what I saw, I think the group played the role of aggressor more-so than the BLM. The fact that the BLM didn't arrest anyone shows that they're not just there to flex their muscles.

That being said, I'm worried about the reports of the contracted military they're bringing in, and the "1st amendment zone". That's not cool at all. I'm glad people are willing to take notice and step up and protest and speak against losing our rights. I don't think calling LEOs names, yelling and pointing, pounding on their vehicles, and kicking their dogs is the way to go about it. Their story would have much more credibility if they had toned the drama down a bit. Granted, I'm an armchair cowboy and it's not my hometown they're messing with. If they were doing this on my street, it'd be tough to not get emotional about it, but I still wouldn't be egging them on in hopes to document them tazing me.
 
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anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
While I have not doubt there are plenty of anti-motorized folks within the BLM and they can obviously influence decisions... they don't make the law, they don't make the judgements and surely they don't get to decide which animals are on the endangered species list. Again, I'm not saying they are perfect, effective or ideal but all this BLM-rhetoric to me is akin to screaming at a police officer because the State of Utah law makers decided it was illegal to drive your dirtbike on the freeway. Right cause, wrong battle.

I paint with a some what broad brush and you are correct that they cannot make laws or list animals, but within the field office, they can do emergency closures for very little justification that are so vague and restrictive, that in many cases are worse than a law because they can sit on them and "slowly" work to resolve the issue. When it comes to the BLM, you obviously wear glasses that are a lot more rose colored than me.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
I was talking to my wife (she's a lawyer) about the "free" speech zones and off the top of her head (without looking into the law of it) she was saying she remembers something about creating zones for "safety" of the protesters. As we know this will be manipulated and is pretty much a load of cr@p.

They can also be used to keep people away from an area where they may want to limit exposure to what they may be doing. I find it interesting that 3 of the hired cowboys are from Ferron, just a few miles down the road from me. I don't know the names but in small towns, information always gets out and it will be interesting
to see who signed up for the job.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
I am stealing some things from a friend who posted on Motoutah, but if anybody out there does not think the BLM is beginning to strong arm American people than look at this example.

http://www.rfdtv.com/story/25206377/oklahoma-texas-border-dispute-has-ranchers-worried
Oklahoma-Texas border dispute has ranchers worried
By RFD-TV News Staff - email

Credit: Texas Farm Bureau
April 10, 2014
BYERS, Texas (RFD-TV) Most people think the border between Texas and Oklahoma is the Red River. Unfortunately, it’s a little more complicated than that, especially along the part of the river where Tommy Henderson and his family ranch.
Henderson lost a lawsuit 30 years ago that moved part of the northern Texas border over a mile to the south.
The Bureau of Land Management [BLM] took 140 acres of his property and didn’t pay him one cent.
Now, they want to use his case as precedent to seize land along a 116-mile stretch of the river.
“They’re wanting to take the boundaries that the courts placed here and extend those east and west to the forks of the river north of Vernon and east to the 98th Meridian which is about 20 miles east of us,” Henderson explained.
BLM, which oversees public land in the United States, claims this land never belonged to Texas.
The Texas landowners who have lived and cared for that land for hundreds of years beg to differ.
BLM plans on taking the land anyway. Property owners will be forced to spend money on lawsuits to keep what is theirs.
For many, that property has been in their family for generations.
"How can BLM come in and say, "Hey, this isn't yours." Even though it’s patented from the state, you've always paid taxes on it. Our family has paid taxes for over 100 years on this place. We've got a deed to it. But yet they walked in and said it wasn't ours," said Henderson.
Ever since the Louisiana Purchase in 1803, there has been controversy over where Oklahoma ends and Texas begins.
In layman’s terms the boundary is the vegetation line on the south side of the Red River.
Over time the river moves. This movement north toward Oklahoma is the sticking point.
The sandy soils erode in a process called accretion, which wipes out the bank. So the property line follows the river.
BLM claims that the river moved by another process called avulsion. With avulsion, the land may be changed by flood or currents, but the property line isn’t. So BLM claims that when the river moved back north the property line stayed put.
It doesn’t help that Oklahoma defines avulsion differently than Texas and the U.S.
“Originally, here the river was out there where it is now and it eroded and accreted up to here, and then it eroded and accreted back. Well, their interpretation is that it eroded up to here but avulsed back. So when you listen to them it is always erosion to the south because the property line follows it then, but it’s always avulsion when it goes north. So the boundary can move south but it can never move back north," said Henderson.
About 90,000 acres could be seized by BLM, disappearing across a new state line. If they are allowed to take the land, it could also affect farmers and ranchers down river like Scott Carpenter, who ranches north of Nocona.
BLM couldn’t take his land, but there would be nothing to stop his neighbor across the river from claiming some of Scott’s property belongs to him. That is just one of the reasons Carpenter wants to help.
"We have numerous places that have been in our family for over a hundred of years, and you hate to see land that people’s worked hard for would lose,” said Carpenter. “As producers we are always on a defense. We have to make decisions to try to help ourselves to help one another."
Both ranchers have been in contact with U.S. Congressman Mac Thornberry, who is working to help stop the land grab. Henderson’s land probably won’t be affected this time, but he’s hoping what happened to him won’t happen to his fellow landowners.
This report is from our partners at the Texas Farm Bureau
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
And there is about a 0% chance that Herbert calls any Utahn to action in this case, they don't want to touch it with a 10' pole.

Interesting. It's the same state constitution you were evoking in support of the BLM.... how very progressive of you.


Kooler than Mudd.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
And lets not lose sight of what the EPA has been doing for the last few years.

And not to be out-done by the BLM, ObamaYoMama's EPA plans to transfer 1,000,000 acres (That's One Million Acres) and a few cities including Riverton, Wyoming (population 10,000) from the state of Wyoming to The Wind River Reservation.[/color]
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...t-fight-against-epa-ruling-that-gave-land-to/
Wyoming officials are gearing up for a potential court battle against the Environmental Protection Agency as they try to reverse a sweeping agency ruling that transferred more than 1 million acres of land -- including an entire city of 10,000 -- to Native American tribes.
The dispute started in December when the EPA ruled on a request from the Northern Arapaho and Eastern Shoshone tribes, which sought "state status" in order to administer air quality monitoring. The EPA determined the land in question actually belongs to the Wind River Indian Reservation and has for more than a century, despite a 1905 law opening it to non-tribal members. The decision encompassed the city of Riverton.
Wyoming officials, who call the decision "arbitrary" and "wrong," now have until Feb. 18 to challenge the ruling in federal appeals court. Meanwhile, state lawmakers have introduced legislation to free up money for the legal battle.
Unclear is whether the EPA will put a hold on its decision in the short-term. In a petition filed last month, Wyoming Attorney General Peter K. Michael urged the agency to reconsider and at least stay the ruling, warning about the range of disruptive consequences.
Among them:
-- Dozens of tribal members jailed for crimes committed "in the disputed area" potentially could challenge their convictions.
-- Previously issued environmental permits could be invalid.
-- Food processing facilities could be able to operate without regulation.
-- The Wyoming Highway Patrol would be unable to enforce criminal laws in the area.
"EPA's decision casts a shadow of uncertainty over the transactions and day-to-day operations of state agencies, courts, businesses and individuals within the disputed territory," Michael wrote.
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
Some people feel that it's their patriotic duty to stand up when their government is going off the rails; others would rather wrap themselves in the warm blanket of statism and play the role of useful idiot.


Kooler than Mudd.
 

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
Interesting. It's the same state constitution you were evoking in support of the BLM.... how very progressive of you.

So the people who drafted the Utah constitution were ALSO time traveling aliens that could see the future and wrote the document to fit all needs at all times? Fascinating.

Crime and politics, little girl. The situation is always fluid.
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
Interesting. It's the same state constitution you were evoking in support of the BLM.... how very progressive of you.


Kooler than Mudd.

Joseph, I didn't say there was a 0% chance it exists, is needed or is legit... Read my comment, I said there is a 0% chance the Utah governor calls us to action on this case. Not sure how you are reading any differently. Plain and simple, the Utah constitution supports the BLM's case, even the Utah politicians that proposed the land return agreed ;). It's not my stance... I simply thing it's a waste of time arguing what is a moot point.
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
Utah became involved when the auction yard in Richfield agreed to auction the cows.

Which quickly changed prior to Joseph or I had commented and I was fully up to speed on that.

If our best strategy is to keep attacking the BLM whom has been court ordered to make these moves... we have absolutely lost. The CD has to be smiling right now, they sue the BLM to force these issues (I.e. this exact issue) and their name is yet to be on the mind of the militias ;)
 

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
Some people feel that it's their patriotic duty to stand up when their government is going off the rails; others would rather wrap themselves in the warm blanket of statism and play the role of useful idiot.

There is a beautiful thing in this country and other developed, dare I say progressive, countries that allows for open political discussion. So while labeling those of us that disagree with you as "idiots" and accusing us of being supportive of statism is in fact helping to stifle free expression, I believe that you are entitled to your opinion.
I've mostly stopped taking anything that you say seriously because whenever you are challenged, as Kurt did earlier in this thread, you simply don't acknowledge it and stick with the same script. But I'll ask you this question, and I hope to get a thoughtful answer. What are you actively doing to keep the government from "going off the rails"? Not hyperbole, but actual boots on the ground action?
People like Kurt, who have stated over and over again that their interest is to maintain recreational access in the State of Utah, spend hours and hours actively engaging land managers and working within the system to try to get the best results for this user group. Thats a small slice of the political world but it is one that he is making a difference in. He's not fighting the system, which let's face it, rarely works. He's working within it to attain positive changes. So what are you doing? You repeatedly say that you have no "skin in the game" here in Utah, and one would assume Nevada, so what are you doing to effect change in Florida?
 

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wydaho
All the bickering aside, I found this pretty amusing. :D

GD00umV.jpg
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
I'm not the one who first brought up the Utah Constitution fanboys. Relax, I love Kurt too... in fact, I want to install a uterus so I can have his baby. :)

Word on the street is the land will be used for fracking... oh the irony.


Kooler than Mudd.
 
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JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
Handing out the warm blankets aside, why are they still effing with this guy? He doesn't believe he should have to pay to graze his cows. He fought for 20 years, they told him they need to protect the turtles they were euthanizing at the same time. They took his cows, destroyed his ability to earn a living as punishment so what else do they want? When will they eff off? Why is anyone ok with this behavior?


Kooler than Mudd.
 

muleskinner

Well-Known Member
Location
Enoch, UT
I've been telling my coworker for several days that Dingy Harry Reid has something to do with this. Then today I heard Mark Levin on the radio say the exact same thing. I wish that crooked old man would get cancer and die a very painful death.

Now get back to the arguing.
 

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
I've been telling my coworker for several days that Dingy Harry Reid has something to do with this. Then today I heard Mark Levin on the radio say the exact same thing. I wish that crooked old man would get cancer and die a very painful death.

Now get back to the arguing.


Yep!! - http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/...s-son’s-interests-in-chinese-solar-plant-deal

Rory Reid, the eldest son of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), is the chief representative for a Chinese energy firm planning to build a $5-billion solar plant on public land in Laughlin, Nevada. ENN Energy Group, a clean-energy firm that manufactures a range of renewable-energy products, is seeking to construct its solar panel facility on a 9,000-acre stretch of land on a Clark County desert plot.

The controversy stems from the fact that Clark County officials voted to sell ENN the public land for $4.5 million, a figure startlingly below the $38.6-million appraisal. Conveniently, Sen. Reid has been one of ENN’s most prominent supporters, having helped mobilize the firm during a 2011 trip to China. Reid’s influence in the Chinese company has been so compelling that, according to Reuters, last month he tried to “pressure Nevada’s largest power company, NV Energy, to sign up as ENN’s first customer.”
 
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