Changes to trails @ EJS

[jmaxj]

And jmaxj, you also say you live in Moab, but don't agree with the RR4W bull****. So why not step up to the plate, become a member, and be part of the solution instead of just complaining?

Jeff

i do live in moab and i do respect the RR4W in alot of things they do like trail maintanence and the posting of the trail route's but i hate politics. i have helped the RR4W do alot of there trail cleanup and such quite a few times but paying the money to join to here crap like this would make me just through away my stickers and have nothing more to do with them, and as for fixing the easter problem i think it should be moved for at least 3 reasons:

1: to keep the punka$$ poser wheelin people from coming down on thier spring break and sitting at potatoe salad hil and making it like mexico..........a party.

2: yes easter is a tradition for many people(includind my family) but it gets no fun when you have to deal with a $hitload of ingorant people just out to cause trouble

3: i think if it is moved the real people who come to have fun will make arrangements to come down even if they move the safari date.

those are my thoughts i myself never came down to moab to get into fights but over easter there are to many people that just don't care and ruin it for the rest of us that want to have a good time and meet new people, the one-way thing i kinda understand due to the fact it gets crazy trying to get around a group of rigs running the trail backwards, and the safari should have the right of way on any trail but they should not close it.

just my opinion

 

[drtsqrl]

To bobdog - You may be right, the money may be blinding a lot of the RR4W members. I am not one of those people. I think cutting the size of EJS in half is a great idea, and is something I have suggested to the club on several occasions, only to get laughed at.

To jmaxj - You and I share alot of the same opinions. All I am saying is that people shouldn't be so quick to critisize if they don't participate in the process. You say you are in favor of changing the date of EJS. Well, that vote failed last fall by just a handfull of votes. If you and Rick B. had been members, and voted to change the date, we very well may have won.

It's just like the presidential elections. I don't think people should have the right to ***** if they don't even bother to vote!

Jeff

 

[jmaxj]

I don't think people should have the right to ***** if they don't even bother to vote!
Jeff

that is correct but if we don't ***** than were not voicing our opinions

 

[cruiseroutfit]

The arogance of the RRFW is unbelievable. Federal land should be for everyone. I can see needing to close one trail for an event like a bike race or Jeep hill climb, but 20+ trails for a whole day on a holaday weekend (as someone who recently started work for a new company and wont have vacation for a while I do not have many options when it comes to trips, so why dont the RRFW do it at another time).

Do some reading above before you pop off your uneducated opinion... Only 11 trails are even affected (not 20+). And only 6 of them are being considered for complete public closure. If you can't find another trail to be on for ONE day (considering their are 50+ other trails in the Moab area), then don't go.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

The arogance of the RRFW is unbelievable...

Arogance???

You want to be the pot or the kettle?

RR4W does more for the Moab trails than any other group or club in existance, they are the reason many of these trails are still open, yet you have the nerve to ***** about the job they are doing and the minor (IMHO) change they want to make to Big Saturday... WTF?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

... My guess is you have become adicted to all the cash that flows through the club.

Cash flows that "grease the wheel" of Moab... Keeps the BLM happy, the econimy happy, etc...

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...All I am saying is that people shouldn't be so quick to critisize if they don't participate in the process. ...

It's just like the presidential elections. I don't think people should have the right to ***** if they don't even bother to vote!

Agreed...

IF YOUR NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOUR PART OF THE PROBLEM!

 

[jp008]

Last year I held a raffle. I gave away some very nice prizes, most of the prizes were stated for Suzuki use only. We raised over $600.00 and that was given to the RR4W's during the Friday night raffle. This is what I do to help out.
Every year I go down, I along with my friends coordinate "around" the RR4W's. It is their event so I do not want to intrude or get in the way (as much as possible). We usually hit the trails about an hour before or after the official run and we keep an ear on the radio to see where they are. If they start getting close then we pull to the side and allow them to pass. If it takes them an hour then I guess it does. They have the right to be there.
I am one of these crazy people that like EJS for the people (the good ones). I don't like the stupid drunk a$$e$ or the people with the me and my rig are holier than thou attitudes. I am there to meet new people and to meet up with old friends. I still think Moab during Easter is a safer place than Little Sahara. I spent a few years out there during easter and I did not fully enjoy myself.

Moab is a beautiful place and I hate to see "sphincter muscles" ruin it. During EJS there just happens to be a bigger concentration of them. I agree that EJS is getting out of hand and something needs to be done about it. If you go to Moab during EJS take some time and make yourself a schedule. Stay out of the way, have fun and leave the barley soda back at camp.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

.... If you go to Moab during EJS take some time and make yourself a schedule. Stay out of the way, have fun and leave the barley soda back at camp.

Good attitude and thoughts Jim

Go to Moab, have fun, wheel... but take a minute and plan around the group that is making it all possible (for 30+ years). There are ALOT of trails in the area, 6 of them being closed shouldn't ruin your day.

 

[bobdog]

Arogance???

You want to be the pot or the kettle?

RR4W does more for the Moab trails than any other group or club in existance, they are the reason many of these trails are still open, yet you have the nerve to ***** about the job they are doing and the minor (IMHO) change they want to make to Big Saturday... WTF?

Your lack of respect for opinions that differ from yours is getting old. People can and do see things different than you on occasion. I thank the RRFW for all they do but it is time for them to take a look at things and honestly decide if the safari in it's curent state is actualy helping or hurting the future of the trails in Moab.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Your lack of respect for opinions that differ from yours is getting old...

People not researching things (ie: reading the post above theirs) is getting old... I stand by my point, if you can't avoid SIX trails (out of the 50+ in the area), then stay home. RR4W isn't asking too much IMHO.

Regarding opinions... Name one incident in which an EJS particpant or event has caused a preblem reflecting badly on our sport. Their are opponents to organized rockcrawling then EJS from my standing. So therefor in my "opinion" yours has no just? It is fair to say without the EJS event, Moab wouldn't be the place it is now... Were you recreating their 35+ years ago?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I thank the RRFW for all they do but it is time for them to take a look at things and honestly decide if the safari in it's curent state is actualy helping or hurting the future of the trails in Moab.

They have looked into it exhaustively, once again pointing to your lack of insight regarding the subject. They looked at it, voted, and decided to leave it as it stands. I stand by my words that RR4W are helping the trails, not only during EJS, but other weekends too...

Take EJS away from the Easter weekend, the partiers will still be there, be glad someone is organized to sweep the trails and clean up the mess.

Thanking people isn't calling them "arrogant"... but thats just my "opinion"...

 

[bobdog]

Todd threw it out for comment and I gave my opinion. You did not need to attack me personaly. Chill out for once. I am not the only one that feels that way.

 

[Cody]

Thats how I see it too. The people will be there that weekend regardless of EJS. By moving EJS, you eliminate a ton of responsible wheelers that self enforce propper land use rules. It's not the size of EJS thats the problem as EJS participants aren't generally the type of people driving off the trail and tossing their PBR cans into the thrush. It's the assholes, and I fear that moving the date--while keeping the crowds down some on easter weekend, would only make things worse for regulating/enforcing responsible land use.

Cody

 

[bobdog]

People not researching things (ie: reading the post above theirs) is getting old... QUOTE]

Sorry missed that one but the first post says all designated trails so why don't you rip on Adams for not doing his research?

 

[bobdog]

Regarding opinions... Name one incident in which an EJS particpant or event has caused a preblem reflecting badly on our sport. Their are opponents to organized rockcrawling then EJS from my standing. So therefor in my "opinion" yours has no just? It is fair to say without the EJS event, Moab wouldn't be the place it is now... Were you recreating their 35+ years ago?

I was not recreating there 35 years ago but I was many years before you even got a drivers licence. As for one bad incident, my first year as a participant at EJS I ran the Porcipine Rim trail on big saturday. The trail leader was a very young guy with very little if any experience leading trails. Much drunken behavior and unsafe driving was tolerated (many of the culprits were friends with the trail leader). It was a very unpleasant experience even for the wild 20 year old I was at the time. The next ten or so years I participated as a paying safarier had none of the same so I would have to say it was a fluke but it did happen.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Todd threw it out for comment and I gave my opinion. You did not need to attack me personaly. Chill out for once. I am not the only one that feels that way.

I apologize if you geel it was personal towards you, I have nothing against you as a person, just your veiw. But calling the RR4W (and me as a member) arrogant isn't something I personally tolerate as I have seen firsthand the good they bring. Once again, sorry if you felt it was a personal attack, that isn't the way I wanted it to come across.

 

[Todd Adams]

People not researching things (ie: reading the post above theirs) is getting old... QUOTE]

Sorry missed that one but the first post says all designated trails so why don't you rip on Adams for not doing his research?

There was no research. I was just reiterating what was in the last RR4W newsletter. Dave came in and cleared it up as to the specific trails. If there were a way just to control the spring break troublemakers without effecting everyone it would be nice.

I have been wheeling Moab for 35 years and have seen the changes. There were few of us then. We either have to adapt to change or find something else to do. Change is often hard and not excepted by some but one thing is for sure, EJS can’t remain the same. Whether it is to move it to a fixed date or put tighter controls on the trails will not sit well with everyone. As Jeff pointed out this is just a beginning. What do we do? Let SUWA have their way and shut the EJS down?

 

[bobdog]

I agree with you Todd, but these proposed changes will do absolutly nothing to curb the problems in the Moab area. They will only make life more pleasant for the safari leaders and participants. The trouble will still be in town and will be just as visibile. I can totally understand why you would be for the rules, but you should also see why others would feel the oposite. I participated in the safari for at least ten years and was an associate member for 5 or so. I grew tired of organized runs that big and have no interest in ever registering again. I do every 3 or so years like to take a few freinds down to Moab at Easter and I feel like I have the same rights to drive the trails as everyone else.

 

[Todd Adams]

I grew tired of organized runs that big and have no interest in ever registering again. I do every 3 or so years like to take a few freinds down to Moab at Easter and I feel like I have the same rights to drive the trails as everyone else.

I don’t have an answer I doubt anybody does but the BLM is asking the RR4W to come up with things to try.
A big problem that the BLM sees is all of the groups doing their own runs during EJS that are not permitted. I am referring to the many “special” groups such as the by invitation only media/vendor runs, make specific runs, and the club runs. According to the BLM regulations any organized group is required to have a permit and since they only grant one at a time, no other group during the EJS could have a permit by their rules. The exception to this is the guide services such as Dan Mick.

As a rule these “special” runs are lead and organized by folks that follow the rules and know the trails well. As an example to the concern the BLM has, they had staff out taking counts last year at trailheads counting vehicles going up trails that were not being run by RR4W.

I think the BLM feels these “special” runs are beginning to out number the official EJS runs except on Big Saturday. The BLM is not getting its cut of the $5 per day per person.

Besides the land use fees we have to pay the BLM permitted groups are required to take out liability insurance with the BLM as beneficiary to the tune of $1M. These are the costs that inflate every year and has caused the EJS to go up to $50 to register and $25 a day per vehicle. This cost is typical of any group holding a permit with the BLM.

EJS is not the only 4x4 event in Moab that has to take on these expenses. Isuzu and Toyota are just a couple of other permities that have to deal with this and ask their participants to shell out $ to be legal.

I guess the bottom line is this. If you and your friends get together and do a trail ride you are organized. It used to be 50 vehicle needed a permit anything under that did not. That has changed to “Any Organized Group”.

If you don’t have a permit and don’t pay the land use fees you could be fined. Believe me when I tell you this is a big issue. Those of us in clubs and organizations are trying to work through these government regulations that I feel are very unfair. They are penalizing the groups that are trying to do the most good and educate others as to the right land use ethics when on public land. But these regulations carry down to family and friends just out for a ride on public land. One way or another free use of our public land days are ending. Have you been up American Fork Canyon in the last few years? The trial fee areas are about to expand with bill that just passed.

So please don’t point your finger just at RR4W when they are just trying to deal with these problems inflicted on them. I hope you understand there is a lot more to it.