OK, here we go....I didn't try and make a personal arguement out of things, but that seems to be what you want. If argument is what you want, I'll argue with you for fun....here is a couple snippets to keep you entertained....
So because you're not part of the problem, you don't need to be part of the solution. Gotcha. Well, the problem exists, and unfortunately for us bud, good people will have to suffer because there are bad apples. Just because you are not part of the problem does not mean that the problem doesn't exist and unfortunately the solution may effect you as well. You are correct however in that by removing the responsible element from EJS we may make the problem worse.
The good people. Try and be less condescending if you're trying to be constructive. Do you know where your fees go when you pay to enter Sand Flats for Hells Revenge? Do you know where the huge tax on your gasoline goes (maybe to subsidize exports to make more profits for big business---nother discussion
) Do you account for every cent of your sales and property tax every year to know where it is going---and if you do---do you not pay portions of it because you don't like how it is being used? Obviously it's good to know where the money is being used, but we need to stop thinking of the BLM as the enemy and think of them as part of the solution. Do you realize how under-staffed they are? I talked to a BLM ranger a couple years ago in a newer 3" lifted XJ and he said that the XJ was the very first vehicle they had that coudl get into some of the trails to patrol them. BLM's money goes all over the place---yes to close trails, but also to patrol them, to enforce the rules on them, to do EA's, to FIGHT THE COUNTLESS LAWSUITES THAT ARE FILED BY GREEN ORGANIZATIONS (SUCH AS SUWA). I remember seeing a percentage once while I was doing some research that showed how much money the BLM spent annually in litigative endeavors. I don't remember the figure, but it was astounding and if part of that money went to enforceing the rules that are in place, then we wouldn't have nearly the problem that we do. So, what I'm saying here is that some of the money does go towards shutting trails down, but lots of it goes towards projects and other things that help us. We need to go through the propper steps, and build the relationships that will help us gain the favor of the BLM and work with them to manage the land and control our sport.
I love how constructive you are here. "help me with your math". What does that serve? Does taking a cheap shot at someone increase your credibility. Since when does 50,000 x 10+ trails add up to 1,000,000. I guess we all aren't privlidged to have learned the implications and models of theoretical multiplication like yourself. I think Capernicus would be proud of your mastery of the art--but anyways (feels good doesn't it) But you are correct, the numbers don't add up and it would be neither fair or possible for the BLM to hold the rr4w responsible for the EA's. There are thousands of miles of roads that travel through areas that will need EA's. They will cost money, and who knows where the money is. But I think the point was (and correct me if I'm wrong) that if there isn't money found to cover them, and the BLM doesn't have it, the only solutoin for them is to shut them down. Now, they may not fight that too hard since it isn't exactly a walk in the park for 4 people to patrol a few thousand miles of roads, a few million acres of land, and a few thousand people who are using it every day. It would be and is a very helpless situation for them---but lets not think about that because the blm is our enemy.
Anyways, this thread isn't supposed to be an argument so I'll stop there. Asking questions and trying to find alternative solutions is awesome, and we need more people that are willing to do that. Unfortunatly, we have a ton of people who ask lots of questions and type big game about access rights and the blm and land closures and how long they've been involved, but they end it with a few keystrokes and a deep down feeling of pride for talking the talk.
I know how much time and heart people like Kurt, dsrtsqrl, Todd, EZ etc. etc put into helping our cause. There are always people who have fast fingers but don't show up to help out the u4wda, or the blm or anything. I'm not saying you don't (the antecedent to 'you' being 4doorjeep)), but there are tons of people like that.
There is u4wda meeting coming up. Thats a perfect place for you to find out more information and to contribute your ideas, solutions, and obvious desire to get involved and make a change.
Cody
at any rate, lets leave the argument and condescending remarks behind. If you want to respond to something I said that was taken personally, you can PM me, or you can just remember this last quote.
Don't get upset.
It's all in good fun till the antagonist gets antagonized
fourdoorjeep said:
So because you're not part of the problem, you don't need to be part of the solution. Gotcha. Well, the problem exists, and unfortunately for us bud, good people will have to suffer because there are bad apples. Just because you are not part of the problem does not mean that the problem doesn't exist and unfortunately the solution may effect you as well. You are correct however in that by removing the responsible element from EJS we may make the problem worse.
The good people. Try and be less condescending if you're trying to be constructive. Do you know where your fees go when you pay to enter Sand Flats for Hells Revenge? Do you know where the huge tax on your gasoline goes (maybe to subsidize exports to make more profits for big business---nother discussion
) Do you account for every cent of your sales and property tax every year to know where it is going---and if you do---do you not pay portions of it because you don't like how it is being used? Obviously it's good to know where the money is being used, but we need to stop thinking of the BLM as the enemy and think of them as part of the solution. Do you realize how under-staffed they are? I talked to a BLM ranger a couple years ago in a newer 3" lifted XJ and he said that the XJ was the very first vehicle they had that coudl get into some of the trails to patrol them. BLM's money goes all over the place---yes to close trails, but also to patrol them, to enforce the rules on them, to do EA's, to FIGHT THE COUNTLESS LAWSUITES THAT ARE FILED BY GREEN ORGANIZATIONS (SUCH AS SUWA). I remember seeing a percentage once while I was doing some research that showed how much money the BLM spent annually in litigative endeavors. I don't remember the figure, but it was astounding and if part of that money went to enforceing the rules that are in place, then we wouldn't have nearly the problem that we do. So, what I'm saying here is that some of the money does go towards shutting trails down, but lots of it goes towards projects and other things that help us. We need to go through the propper steps, and build the relationships that will help us gain the favor of the BLM and work with them to manage the land and control our sport.I love how constructive you are here. "help me with your math". What does that serve? Does taking a cheap shot at someone increase your credibility. Since when does 50,000 x 10+ trails add up to 1,000,000. I guess we all aren't privlidged to have learned the implications and models of theoretical multiplication like yourself. I think Capernicus would be proud of your mastery of the art--but anyways
(feels good doesn't it) But you are correct, the numbers don't add up and it would be neither fair or possible for the BLM to hold the rr4w responsible for the EA's. There are thousands of miles of roads that travel through areas that will need EA's. They will cost money, and who knows where the money is. But I think the point was (and correct me if I'm wrong) that if there isn't money found to cover them, and the BLM doesn't have it, the only solutoin for them is to shut them down. Now, they may not fight that too hard since it isn't exactly a walk in the park for 4 people to patrol a few thousand miles of roads, a few million acres of land, and a few thousand people who are using it every day. It would be and is a very helpless situation for them---but lets not think about that because the blm is our enemy.Anyways, this thread isn't supposed to be an argument so I'll stop there. Asking questions and trying to find alternative solutions is awesome, and we need more people that are willing to do that. Unfortunatly, we have a ton of people who ask lots of questions and type big game about access rights and the blm and land closures and how long they've been involved, but they end it with a few keystrokes and a deep down feeling of pride for talking the talk.
I know how much time and heart people like Kurt, dsrtsqrl, Todd, EZ etc. etc put into helping our cause. There are always people who have fast fingers but don't show up to help out the u4wda, or the blm or anything. I'm not saying you don't (the antecedent to 'you' being 4doorjeep)), but there are tons of people like that.
There is u4wda meeting coming up. Thats a perfect place for you to find out more information and to contribute your ideas, solutions, and obvious desire to get involved and make a change.
Cody
at any rate, lets leave the argument and condescending remarks behind. If you want to respond to something I said that was taken personally, you can PM me, or you can just remember this last quote.
Don't get upset.
It's all in good fun till the antagonist gets antagonized
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