D60 swap in a Rubicon

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Can't believe I'm actually contemplating this....

But since I am swapping out the front D44 with a HPD44 (triangulating it and doing coil overs), I'm thinking about putting the mate (79 F250) FF D60 in the rear. So couple of questions....

First are brakes - I would like to keep disc brakes - how do I make this happen?

Second - can I rotate (end for end) housing and turn it into a HP D60? I would still be using the drive side of the gears, but I don't know enough about D60's to know if I would then be taking in the shorts because of poor oiling or etc.

Third - What good, if any, would the Warn FF hub conversion do me on this axle?

Fourth - driveline. I don't have the axle in front of me, but I'm assuming it will have a different yoke than my current 1330? What about length, will I need to alter my driveline length as well?

Fifth - I will keep the TJ style bracketry and triangulation like I have now. I will raise the LCA's, though, to give better clearance there...

Sixth - anything else you can think of going wrong that I didn't... ;)
 

Meat_

Banned
Location
Lehi
Brakes are easy, although to stay legal (e brake) you have to use caddy calipers which are quite expensive if you don't have cores

no, unless you want to have your front and rear go in different directions

Why? :confused:

You can get any yoke you want for the D60, you'll probably have to adjust the length

Coilover the rear while your at it ;)

Why didn't you listen to me 2 years ago?
 
Last edited:

thenag

Registered User
Location
Kearns
Wayne?! do you want a part that i can brake or one that I can't.

I know you and I have had this conversation. Rear d60's are about as strong as a ford 8.8. the 14 bolt is not that much heavier than a rear 60. it does hang down quite a bit more. disk brake conversions are cheap and easy. I have seen a lot of rear broken d60 shafts and never a broken 14 bolt shaft.

are you talking about running an axle upside down? i have been told that they don't oil properly. also you have to plug the breathers. but go ahead and do it so you can blow up your rear d60 and install a 14 bold.

If you are getting the rear 60 cheap/free then go ahead and do it planning on putting something stronger in it eventally. (or upgrading shafts and diff etc)

as far as the 1330, ford 3/4 and one tons usually have a 1330 or 1350 ujoint. so you can get the yoke you need or a crossover ujoint. you will probably have to have your shaft shortend since the snout will be longer.

with an auto the lack of a parking brake isn't that big of a deal IMO. as far as keeping it street leagal? how big of fended flares do you need on a tj to cover full width axles?

nathan
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Will that brake setup work with Ford 8 lug? Or a better question, would I have to do anything to this axle to accept a 8 lug rotor? And off of what vehicle? Will my front 8 lug rotors then work in the back with that bracket? Could I also use the front calipers? ...all Ford stuff, the brackets are talking about Chevy stuff.

Why on the hubs? Kind of my point too, I was just seeing if I was missing something.

Ok then, rotat the housing and then use reverse cut gears. Then will I have oiling issues after rotating the housing? Witha HP in the rear I could have better driveline angles, which would also mean a stronger driveline.

I didn't do it 2 years ago for the same reason I'm not just rushing out to do it now - I still feel my D44 is sufficient for 35" tires and have no intentions on going larger than 35" tires. If I do the D60 swap, I'll have to go larger to maintian my same clearance.

I don't want to coilover the rear until I figure out if/when I'm goign to stretch it. The only reason I'm doing the front when I swap in the new D44 is so that I can get back some of the real estate lost from coil/shock mounts, etc. so that I can also triangulate the front end at the same time.
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
See... I already dont' want to loose the clearance I have with my D44, but am biting the bullet for the D60 and you want me to loose even more clearance with a 14bolt? I'm not breaking anything in my D44 now, so I shouldn't be breaking anything with a D60 either, right? Especially since it is a full float. Plus a 14bolt doesn't have the gear selection a D60 does. If I could keep my D44 and change it over to 8 lug to match the F250 D44 in front, I would!

The D60 I'm using is out of a 79 F250 that has about 62" WMS to WMS - that's 1" a side and is easily absorbed by a different offset wheel.
 

Meat_

Banned
Location
Lehi
Will that brake setup work with Ford 8 lug? Or a better question, would I have to do anything to this axle to accept a 8 lug rotor? And off of what vehicle? Will my front 8 lug rotors then work in the back with that bracket? Could I also use the front calipers? ...all Ford stuff, the brackets are talking about Chevy stuff....


Read the directions on that page ;) It's all bolt on, and dirt cheap. With the right offset, 17" wheels and 37"'s you'll be golden :D Count on at least going to 30spl alloys in the rear, but you just as well do 35's while you're doing it (buy the locker once ;) ) Be aware that you will most likely have to have the hubs machined bigger (or drilled) to fit the 35 splines.
 

I Lean

Mbryson's hairdresser
Vendor
Location
Utah
Holy crap

Upside down axle housing will NOT do anything for you unless you have your drivetrain backward. Upside down D60 does NOT equal HP60. HP60 gears will NOT fit in a standard 60, nor would they change the direction it would spin.

Other than that, narrow it, bore the spindles to run 35 spline shafts, disk brake it and run the hell out of it.
 

Meat_

Banned
Location
Lehi
...Upside down axle housing will NOT do anything for you unless you have your drivetrain backward. Upside down D60 does NOT equal HP60. HP60 gears will NOT fit in a standard 60, nor would they change the direction it would spin...

Maybe they'll listen to you.
 

thenag

Registered User
Location
Kearns
if your that woried about ground clearance build an 8.8 and convert the d44 to 5 lug. 8.8's have real good gear and locker selection. if you don't ever plan to go over 37's you shouldn't brake a built 8.8. A bunch of bronco guys run straight 44's and 8.8's just for that reason. I know guys that run stock bronco 8.8's with 35/37's ARB's and do ok.

but i think your disk brake options for the 8.8 are not what they are for 60 or the 14 bolt. The 8.8 won't be nearly as heavy as the 60. I never looked into moding my 8.8 since it wouldn't hold up to my needs. weight is an issue take it from the guy that drives a 6500lb truck.

i still don't know what you mean by rotate the housing? just point the snout of the diff at the tcase instead of level? yeah everybody does that. my 10.25 and my current 14 bolt point right at the tcase. it works well.

so since this all going in your rubi you know how much $$$ you can sell your axles for right? ;)

all of the 8 lug axles from ford dodge and gm are the same bolt patern until the ford superduties in 99 and the new gm wheels have a smaller center hole. but up through the mid 90's all the 8 lug stuff takes the same wheels. (i think that is what you were asking about)

big brakes are cool, my truck stops better now with 37's than it did with the wheels, stock hardware and booster.

nathan
 

Meat_

Banned
Location
Lehi
Actually Ford and Dodge have always had a larger hub and thus larger center hole, stock Chev wheels will NOT work on Dodge and Ford rear 60's... but all after market 8 lugs have the larger center hole.
 

I Lean

Mbryson's hairdresser
Vendor
Location
Utah
waynehartwig said:
The D60 I'm using is out of a 79 F250 that has about 62" WMS to WMS - that's 1" a side and is easily absorbed by a different offset wheel.

Oh sorry, I missed the part about it being only 62" wide. That's awfully narrow for a stock D60, so that's pretty cool. Forget what I said about narrowing it, but everything else stands.

Also, you do have the option of having a custom spacer/pattern adapter made to change your existing rear to 8 lug. Prolly not the best solution, but I used a similar setup on a Toyota rear axle to run 8 lug wheels when I put a D60 in my first buggy, with no problems.

Meat_ said:
Maybe they'll listen to you.

I don't see why anyone would. I certainly wouldn't. :)
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Just to reiterate (and be clear on my thoughts, what I am doing), I'm taking the axles out of a 79 F250 - HPD44 front and FF D60 rear. I know the front is 63" WMS to WMS, so I assume the rear is about the same or a little less, maybe 62". Which should work nicely on a rig designed for 60" axles that are already under it.

My current D44/D44 setup has been great and no issues with 35's - Full alloys front and rear.

I am in the process of obtaining the HPD44. For a couple of reasons - MUCH larger brakes, actual hubs and true high steer - the fact that it is HPD44 is the main reason, the rest is bonus. With the HPD44 I can triangulate the front and miss the engine completely, without getting fancy with bent/wishbone control arms, like I would if I kept my current D44. In this process, I'll be installing high clearance lowers and converting the front over to coil overs as well. This HPD44 is complete and everything is new - even comes with BTF high steer arms.

With that said, I'd like (I think) to keep everything there intact and just upgrade the rear to keep the same bolt pattern with disc brakes. Rather this means upgrading my D44 or changing it out for a D60. I can have the FF D60 for about $300, soo...
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
if your that woried about ground clearance build an 8.8 and convert the d44 to 5 lug. 8.8's have real good gear and locker selection. if you don't ever plan to go over 37's you shouldn't brake a built 8.8. A bunch of bronco guys run straight 44's and 8.8's just for that reason. I know guys that run stock bronco 8.8's with 35/37's ARB's and do ok.

I know guys running 40" tires on 8.8's that I personally built. But I'm not goign to build/swap my D44 for a 8.8 and have the same bolt pattern. To me that sounds like doing a lot of work for really nothing. ..And I can build a pretty mean 8.8! :D

If I'm going to do a rear swap, then a D60 (out of the same rig) is the way to go for me so that I can keep the 8 on 6.5 like the front and not have to do custom axle work as well.
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
If I do the D60 swap, what is the easiest way to do 35 spline axles? Do I do a Warn FF hub conversion? or is there an easier (cheaper) way to do it with a spindle, hub and 35 spline axle?

I've been looking over the BTF site, and I think my question on the brakes was a valid one. No where does it say anything about 8 lug rotors or the fronts being able to fit on the rear with a FF axle. I was just worried that it wouldn't have a large enough hole in the rotor, and etc... When it comes to D60's and hubs, I'm pretty ignorant.... :D
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Can I have your stock rubi axles when your done? :)

'Have'? I think they are worth at least $3k. They will be complete, with disc brakes, high steer, BTF diff covers, Alloy USA axles, Yukon 4.88 gears, 1330 pinion yokes (u bolt type, not straps), etc. They even have new ball joints, wheel hubs and inner axle tube seals in the front. The rear is already trussed for a triangulated suspension. I'll even include the compressors to operate the lockers.....

....Or is that what you meant, when you said 'have'? ;)
 

I Lean

Mbryson's hairdresser
Vendor
Location
Utah
Unless that front has been narrowed, it should be wider than 63". Verify that...

The rear axle is nowhere near worth $300 unless it has some goodies (gears, locker, shafts) already. Rear D60's are a dime a dozen.

It should already have good spindles welded onto it right now, they'll just need to be bored out to 1.6" to fit 35 spline shafts through them. Change the carrier to a 35 spline one of your choice, and bolt the new shafts in. They have a flange on the outside that bolts to the wheel hub. If you want locking hubs you can do that, but I've never really cared for the idea of hubs in the rear.

There are tons of choices for disk brakes, but the easiest way is to get some weld-on brackets, and use GM 3/4 ton front disks, and 1/2 ton calipers. Standard D44-front stuff. The rotor goes on the wheel hub in place of the original drum (lug studs pressed through)
 

thenag

Registered User
Location
Kearns
Wayne if you are buying a front axle and leaving the gears in it then yes get the rear from the same truck and run it for now. if you are regearing the front find/build the rear axle you want.

that is pretty much what i did, i got a non running f350 and swaped both axles in my truck knowing that someday i would put a better rear axle in. (I actually thought I would have it years ago honestly) my 10.25 did fine but when i finally got around to regearing i wasn't going to put any money into and installed the 14 bolt.

$300 for a ford rear d60 is exspensive, i got my 14 bolt for $100. i don't think i would pay much more than $200 for any stock rear end.

i thought tj's were 5 on 4.5 and ford is 5 on 5.5 so i was assuming that if you swaped to ford 5 lug you would have to run a diffrent rear end.

i thought that to upgrade a rear 60 to 35 spline was just a matter of getting new spider gears (locker) and new (alloy) shafts?

nathan
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Unless that front has been narrowed, it should be wider than 63". Verify that...

The rear axle is nowhere near worth $300 unless it has some goodies (gears, locker, shafts) already. Rear D60's are a dime a dozen.

It should already have good spindles welded onto it right now, they'll just need to be bored out to 1.6" to fit 35 spline shafts through them. Change the carrier to a 35 spline one of your choice, and bolt the new shafts in. They have a flange on the outside that bolts to the wheel hub. If you want locking hubs you can do that, but I've never really cared for the idea of hubs in the rear.

There are tons of choices for disk brakes, but the easiest way is to get some weld-on brackets, and use GM 3/4 ton front disks, and 1/2 ton calipers. Standard D44-front stuff. The rotor goes on the wheel hub in place of the original drum (lug studs pressed through)
I'm getting the front axle from 53willys (his dad's black Cherokee is the donor), and he said it was 63". Looking up the part number for the shafts, I come up with the inners being 34.75 and 18.63 for about 54" from ball joint to ball joint. So I think 63" is pretty close with those measurements? No? :ugh: This is kind of important, because I don't want to be 67 or more wide...

I also believe the FF rear axles are 34.94", from flange to end of the splines.

Not sure if those can help you determine the actual width of the axles....

Rear hubs aren't important to me. They might be nice to have for some reason, but I could see myself nailing one on rocks and breaking it. So I'll just stay with the flange style...

So the weld on ones are better to get than the BTF bolt on talked about earlier? I honestly don't have a preference either way...

As for the rear D60, I guess I'll keep looking then. That $300 included shipping... According to car-part.com, there isn't one up here for the taking.
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Wayne if you are buying a front axle and leaving the gears in it then yes get the rear from the same truck and run it for now. if you are regearing the front find/build the rear axle you want.

that is pretty much what i did, i got a non running f350 and swaped both axles in my truck knowing that someday i would put a better rear axle in. (I actually thought I would have it years ago honestly) my 10.25 did fine but when i finally got around to regearing i wasn't going to put any money into and installed the 14 bolt.

$300 for a ford rear d60 is exspensive, i got my 14 bolt for $100. i don't think i would pay much more than $200 for any stock rear end.

i thought tj's were 5 on 4.5 and ford is 5 on 5.5 so i was assuming that if you swaped to ford 5 lug you would have to run a diffrent rear end.

i thought that to upgrade a rear 60 to 35 spline was just a matter of getting new spider gears (locker) and new (alloy) shafts?

nathan

The front is already built and completely new with 5.13's. However, I think they are too low for a highway rig. Plus, I'm not a fan of Ox lockers, so I think I'll pull the Ox and gears and install 4.88's with a Detroit. The rear will be completely redone - gears, Detroit and 35 spline axles.

TJ's are 5 on 4.5. But, my rear D44 is dual drilled for 5 on 4.5 or 5 on 5.5 - so if I switched the front over to 5.5, then I could keep the rear D44 because of the same bolt pattern.
 
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