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Firebird Resto input

Engine/Tranny Combination in a Classic Firebird

  • Stock Pontiac 350 / Tremec/Richmond

    Votes: 3 11.1%

  • Chevy 350 / 700R4

    Votes: 1 3.7%

  • Pontiac 400 or 455 / Tremec/Richmond

    Votes: 16 59.3%

  • Duramax LB7 / Allison (2wd)

    Votes: 5 18.5%

  • Other

    Votes: 2 7.4%
  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
mbryson

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Location
Bountiful, land of rocks
That Indian 455 would be pretty stinkin' reliable. I don't think you'd have much trouble finding parts, but maybe? They are getting kinda old with the last one built in 1975.

I had a friend with a '69 GS 400, 3.08 rear and a Muncie knock down about 20 mpg pretty regularly. The 400 is the same design as the Buick 430-455. With some mild gears (say 3.55s?) and the 6 speed, I'd be you could pull some mileage out of a big cube motor.

For a "pro touring" type car like you're describing, it'd be ultra-hard to beat the mentioned LS motor/trans combo. Probably a fairly common and relatively easy swap, though and it looks as if you're wanting something unique.

That's awesome that it's a family car and you're building it how you want it. ChevyCrew is dead nuts right on the fix it yourself factor of a carbed, HEI older motor though. Not much to go wrong with one of those.
 
BlackDog

BlackDog

one small mod at a time
Location
Proudly Deported to ID
And a big block can be thrifty... I could pull on occasion 20 ou of my leSabre... which had to weigh twice what you do, and.. had way lower compression (75 model year 455)

I like the idea of ported/polished balanced headered lightly supercharged 455 with Carburetion , early GM TBI, or even Holley EFI... that coupled with a 5 or 6 speed manual trans, will give you useable power, and enough of it that it will feel like a muscle car, final drive it around 3.75 or even 4.10 if you end up with the 6 speed ratio that was posted above...

Low 20's... Brag points of a 455... and Pontiac throughout...
 
Tacoma

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
There are new parts being made for Pontiac motors now.. I think someone started making blocks not too long ago.... :D

Multiport EFI and a Tremec 6spd. Helll yes
 
soda blaster

soda blaster

Active Member
Location
Saratoga Springs
I can hook you up with pretty much any Vette motor you want, I have a zo6 full drive train out of a 2003 right now. I soda blast a ton of Vette parts for different companies.
 
Hickey

Hickey

Burn-barrel enthusiast
Supporting Member
Location
Grantsville, Utah
IMHO the appeal of a high HP motor wears off pretty quick. A smaller motor that has been modestly built for good power and great reliability will be more fun to drive for hours on end. I lose interest with any car build when they go straight for the biggest motor they can get. Bigger is boring. Character is what attracts me.
 
spencurai

spencurai

Vanilla Gorilla
Location
WVC,UT
Hickey said:
IMHO the appeal of a high HP motor wears off pretty quick. A smaller motor that has been modestly built for good power and great reliability will be more fun to drive for hours on end. I lose interest with any car build when they go straight for the biggest motor they can get. Bigger is boring. Character is what attracts me.
Click to expand...
Ding Ding Ding!!!
 
4554x4

4554x4

always modifing something
Location
Sandy Utah
400

I know you didnt list a turbo 400 in your selections to vote on. I have an extra turbo 400 that would fit your Pontiac motor. Call me if interested. Wayne 801-661-3306
 
Greg

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
Location
Grand Junction, CO
Hickey said:
IMHO the appeal of a high HP motor wears off pretty quick. A smaller motor that has been modestly built for good power and great reliability will be more fun to drive for hours on end. I lose interest with any car build when they go straight for the biggest motor they can get. Bigger is boring. Character is what attracts me.
Click to expand...

I know what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree... :cody:


400-500 HP can be reliable... ;) Build it right and drive it right and it will be fine. I took a big roadtrip with a friend of mine in his Formula 400 Firebird with a well-built Pontiac 400, we drove from UT to Oregon and had no problems.

There's no question that the technology going into the LS-series engines is some of the best ever. Comparing one of those motors to late-60's engine is apples to oranges. If I were planning on driving a muscle car all over the country, I'd want simplicity under the hood. If it breaks down, it's usually an easy diagnosis and simple fix.

I still think a 455 with Edelbrock aluminum heads & intake, a good roller cam and 10 to 1 compression would be a great combo. Top it off with a big Holley vacuum secondary carb and a good ignition. Shoot for 450 HP and Ft/lbs, which is not crazy power out of 455 cubes.

Pair that engine up with a 6 speed manual Tremec and 3.55 or 3.73 gears... looks like that trans is rated for 450 ft/lbs max, so keep the motor under that. The Tremec's have either .50 or .62 overdrive ratios in 6th gear.

3.55 gears with 27" tall tires and a .50 OD in 6th gear at 80 MPH = 1767 RPM.

A healthy big-block will have the torque to push low RPM's at higher speeds and still get decent mileage, IMO. There's your character... :p
 
mbryson

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Location
Bountiful, land of rocks
Greg said:
I know what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree... :cody:


400-500 HP can be reliable... ;) Build it right and drive it right and it will be fine. I took a big roadtrip with a friend of mine in his Formula 400 Firebird with a well-built Pontiac 400, we drove from UT to Oregon and had no problems.

There's no question that the technology going into the LS-series engines is some of the best ever. Comparing one of those motors to late-60's engine is apples to oranges. If I were planning on driving a muscle car all over the country, I'd want simplicity under the hood. If it breaks down, it's usually an easy diagnosis and simple fix.

I still think a 455 with Edelbrock aluminum heads & intake, a good roller cam and 10 to 1 compression would be a great combo. Top it off with a big Holley vacuum secondary carb and a good ignition. Shoot for 450 HP and Ft/lbs, which is not crazy power out of 455 cubes.

Pair that engine up with a 6 speed manual Tremec and 3.55 or 3.73 gears... looks like that trans is rated for 450 ft/lbs max, so keep the motor under that. The Tremec's have either .50 or .62 overdrive ratios in 6th gear.

3.55 gears with 27" tall tires and a .50 OD in 6th gear at 80 MPH = 1767 RPM.

A healthy big-block will have the torque to push low RPM's at higher speeds and still get decent mileage, IMO. There's your character... :p
Click to expand...


I'm with Greg. :D
 
Tacoma

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
I'm with Greg too, except I'd want fuel injection. :D

I got 15mpg out of a very well-tuned 396 with a 4spd, in a big old GMC truck, it can be done.

Big blocks are fine. :D
 
jamesgeologist

jamesgeologist

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Location
Ogden, UT
The Moser 9" is built with a 3.55 ratio. A deep overdrive will definitely keep the R's down while cruising America's highways. The 400 Pontiac is almost a no brainer. It was an option on this car and if I were to find a good transplant, I would use it. Soda blaster has me dreaming of late model power too. Good discussion folks. Thanks,

James
 
BioNuke1

BioNuke1

Jeepsus Chrystler
Location
0rem
An '02 LS1 Camaro with the 6 speed manual trans has an EPA sticker rating of 19/28mpg.
With a turbo you could safely be at 500hp/tq. and increase mpg to over 30. Also, a fully dressed LS1 weighs around 450lbs. Honestly, this is all hard to beat, and theres -Nothing- plain or boring about a turbocharged V-8. :D
 
jamesgeologist

jamesgeologist

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
Location
Ogden, UT
Well, I have a TPI system sitting in the garage, just no motor to put it on. Spencurai took my one good motor and douched it all to hell. The system is a late 90's camaro unit I bought off of Matt Holme. It's tuned for torques and grunting big tires around the comp scene.....
 
jet_aj

jet_aj

Just loosing my mind
Location
UT
my vote is ls1 and a 6 speed. My brother has built an 87 transam that is pretty neat. It still has the stock motor, but he put the 6 speed out of a lt1 car and we installed an STS turbo system. With a very mild tuning code (almost stock) in the CPU it produced 327 HP and 450 Ftlbs of torque... He gets pretty decent MPG on the highway because of the 6 speed and better breathing intake/exhaust. With an LS1 motor you could get even more power and still have the reliability and fuel mileage
My brothers car
Dyno Run a few years back

He now has a new intake with larger throttle body, but hasn't dyno'd it since the new changes
 
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spencurai

spencurai

Vanilla Gorilla
Location
WVC,UT
Here is the paint test...it was cloudy today but you can get an idea. If the size is too big...go die in a fire!
3231737297_29065fc9f9_b.jpg
 
spencurai

spencurai

Vanilla Gorilla
Location
WVC,UT
And this is waiting in line behind James' car...getting a tune up and hydraulic brakes...then it will get driven as is...SWEET!!!!
3231369145_8fa90ebd0c_b.jpg
 
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