offensive 4x4 photos

[XT Utah]

Maybe I just don't get it either but I don't see what damage was done. If Corey was digging tearing stuff up I might feel differently.

I've wheeled with him and he's a responsible, conscientious guy.

IMHO, this is a case of, as someone here said, "parking on the school lawn". No damage was done but the neighbors call the cops on you anyway

 

[Cherokeester]

Funny we have no problems tearing the crap out of little moab, rattlesnake and constricter. (I love em all and will continue to drive on them) I think we need to look inwards before we start a name calling deal. Everyone has their own definitions of things. I think we all need to be carefull of when and where we go and what we wheel on. JMO

 

[mbryson]

..............Coreshot and mbryson... ask around you will find a lot of people that have been off road with me... I can walk the walk as well as anyone, I just think that some pics are damn fun...oh and your welcome to come along anytime too.

The real issue I have with SOME of your photos is that you are just off the trail. You can find 'athletic' poses ON the trail. I'm tired of seeing areas threatened with closure because the road gets so wide. If we all RELIGIOUSLY stayed on the trail, there wouldn't be issues. The fact that you have the guts to respond tells me you don't intend to cause harm to the image or to the environment.

The rig you have looks like a capable little rig. I'd just like to see it on the trail instead of just off it.

Funny we have no problems tearing the crap out of little moab, rattlesnake and constricter. (I love em all and will continue to drive on them) I think we need to look inwards before we start a name calling deal. Everyone has their own definitions of things. I think we all need to be carefull of when and where we go and what we wheel on. JMO

Some of us do have problems with "tearing the crap out of" those areas. Personally, I try to stay on the trail. I take whatever challenging line I can find, but I do stay on the trail. (Little Moab being a 'weird' area due to it's configuration.)

 

[Brett]

If we all RELIGIOUSLY stayed on the trail, there wouldn't be issues.

But I am not religious

 

[Tacoma]

I'm not sure I can really be against the whole steps picture. As for the others, I share MBryson's view that it's just... uneccesary. There are a lot of places out here that personally, look like kind of gray areas to me as far as access goes.... but I try very hard to hold to lighter-treading principle.

so Corey, when are you taking me out to Tecoma? eh? heheh

 

[pumpkinbronc]

Maybe all ya winers should start a save the Tecoma Steps fund and try and get Billary to designate it as a wilderness area




Easy now just pokin fun

 

[scoutabout]

Maybe all ya winers should start a save the Tecoma Steps fund and try and get Billary to designate it as a wilderness area

Easy now just pokin fun

I think that's funny.

Another classic RME thread.

I don't think anyone needs to attack Corey's wheeling prowess. He might not have a picture of his truck hanging upside down off a canyon rim, but that doesn't mean he's some kind of mall-wheeler. Everything that needs to be said about the picture and staying on the trail has already been said.

 

[Rusted]

e28bimmer believe it or not we are on the same team, we have the same interests, just like everyone else on this board, we all like to go wheeling. In addition we all hate to see trails or areas closed off or threatened to be closed off. There is a group of yahoos out there that in my opinion are uneducated about land rights issues who do a lot of damage when they "tear it up". I don't get the impression that you are one of those yahoos. On the other side of the fence are the greenies that would prefer we all walk to see nature and pee in plastic bags so we don't leave anything unnatural. I think that once both sides are educated it is easy to see that off-road vehicles are a great past time that don't necessarily damage land, they are a great way to see nature, enjoy it with your friends and family, and enjoy the resources that we have without causing lasting damage.

Have you seen the SUWA website and news letters? They would love to make you their next poster child, and make you an example of why that area needs to be restricted. In my opinion the tracks left on a sand dune are less damaging, but they made it into their news letters. Trust me we would all hate to see that happen. Could it happen, would it happen, who knows, but by displaying your flex on an old mining artifact no matter what its age is not going to help the off-road land use cause. If you want to flex on some stairs let me know, I will make a form, poor some cement in it, and you can park on it all day, and take photos until you run out of film. I just don't think that what your picture depicts is the smartest of moves to help keep trails open. Same topic with wandering off the trails.

Do we want you off the forum? I don't see why, I am sure you could be a huge asset to this board. Like I said we are all here for common reasons, why chase someone who can add to our community away?

I just feel that rather that throw down a staunch attitude that you are 100% right and not going to change, and you will drive over it again and again, you should step back a little, think about the risk (to the relics, trails, 4x4 community, etc), and see if you can do a little more to ensure that all of us, including yourself, can enjoy what is out there in the future.

So my question to you, and anyone else out there is this. Why risk it?


PS lets go wheeling sometime, topics like this don’t take any skin of my back or leave any hard feelings.

 

[RWH]

i may be a bit confused here now... Suwa defends cryptobiotic crust... they defend Scub oak, caddis flys, and sage brush... and now they also defend Cement steps that have been abandoned??? I think if they start trying to preserve things like that we'll be alright... thus far though, i think they've been pretty far removed from any preservation of history as pertaining to man.

 

[NoTrax]

I dunno... I kind of look at it like parking on the elementary school grass...
Probably not hurting anything but you probably shouldn't be doing it and if some authority figure catches you I'll laugh my ass off at your expense.

Go to whitesides elementary in Layton Utah just about any Saturday in the summer and see dozens of cars parked exactly where we took pictures. Many mothers and fathers at the soccer games watching the kids play. There is no divider, curb, or signs. Why don't you actually read and analyze before commenting? Would not the internet would be filled with so much less fluff that it would not be such a headache to use.

 

[NoTrax]

Maybe I just don't get it either but I don't see what damage was done. If Corey was digging tearing stuff up I might feel differently.

I've wheeled with him and he's a responsible, conscientious guy.

IMHO, this is a case of, as someone here said, "parking on the school lawn". No damage was done but the neighbors call the cops on you anyway

Your missing the real "point" the ones complaining think that just because they have a computer and access to the internet that it gives them the license to be opinionated jerks. No matter what happens the story behind it is unimportant, what their first view is, is the real view. Just grab something and run with it, be it moronic or not.

Does not matter if he was just having fun not destroying anything? Wow, be careful man those "Historic" 20 year old cement steps have some serious value to them.

The point of it, is it gives those individuals faceless opinions and the right to act like they have authority with something, its like cops in real life, but you just find so many more self righteous people online because they can use the keyboard instead of their mouth.

If you post pictures of individuals doing damage and willfully causing destruction that's a different cause. When I was growing up my dad would take me and my brothers and sisters out to the west desert to Kelton, and other various sites out past promontory. There is a Sheriffs cabin WAY out there with bunk beds, a heater and a shack out back. Its a largish cabin with windows, cabinets etc.

We would go out there, spend the night or two and stock it with food and just do some target practice.

One time about 3-4 years ago we went out and someone had shot out the windows, damaged the building and did some stuff that would warrant a lynching party.

My dad and my brothers went home, got boards nails wood and whatever else was needed to fix up the place and did our best to fix it. If we were stuck out there there for who knows what I am comforted knowing it is still out there, and maintained. Its a historic building, I have no idea how old it is but its very old.

My dad calls it the Hogup Hilton, and I will have many dear memories attached to that place. So when people say that this individual in this thread and my brother and I parking on the lawn to take pics are criminally negligent as those individuals were who destroyed that Emergency cabin that really lights a fire under my ass.

Grow up and stop attacking people at every angle you can find just to make yourself feel better, have some maturity and think before you type.

 

[waynehartwig]

e28bimmer believe it or not we are on the same team, we have the same interests, just like everyone else on this board, we all like to go wheeling. In addition we all hate to see trails or areas closed off or threatened to be closed off. There is a group of yahoos out there that in my opinion are uneducated about land rights issues who do a lot of damage when they "tear it up". I don't get the impression that you are one of those yahoos. On the other side of the fence are the greenies that would prefer we all walk to see nature and pee in plastic bags so we don't leave anything unnatural. I think that once both sides are educated it is easy to see that off-road vehicles are a great past time that don't necessarily damage land, they are a great way to see nature, enjoy it with your friends and family, and enjoy the resources that we have without causing lasting damage.

Have you seen the SUWA website and news letters? They would love to make you their next poster child, and make you an example of why that area needs to be restricted. In my opinion the tracks left on a sand dune are less damaging, but they made it into their news letters. Trust me we would all hate to see that happen. Could it happen, would it happen, who knows, but by displaying your flex on an old mining artifact no matter what its age is not going to help the off-road land use cause. If you want to flex on some stairs let me know, I will make a form, poor some cement in it, and you can park on it all day, and take photos until you run out of film. I just don't think that what your picture depicts is the smartest of moves to help keep trails open. Same topic with wandering off the trails.

This is my feeling on the subject as well. Well said. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[mbryson]

Your missing the real "point" the ones complaining think that just because they have a computer and access to the internet that it gives them the license to be opinionated jerks. No matter what happens the story behind it is unimportant, what their first view is, is the real view. Just grab something and run with it, be it moronic or not.

Does not matter if he was just having fun not destroying anything? Wow, be careful man those "Historic" 20 year old cement steps have some serious value to them.

The point of it, is it gives those individuals faceless opinions and the right to act like they have authority with something, its like cops in real life, but you just find so many more self righteous people online because they can use the keyboard instead of their mouth.

Not to incriminate myself as one with "authority" or be an "opinionated jerk" but I do have issues with the photos posted on that website. If they were within the trail, I'd have absolutely no issues with them whatsoever. When they are outside the trail (ever so slightly), I do have issues. There are trails I started running years ago that have continually gotten wider just so someone can take a 'flex shot' or something. One of those areas just happens to be my absolute favorite trail and it pisses me off that people just couldn't stay on the trail. It was plenty challenging initially. Now it's twice to three times as wide as it should be in some areas and a lot of the natural beauty is somewhat scarred in the area. If people could/would keep off of those areas for a few years and stay on the original trail, it would return to it's natural state.

If you post pictures of individuals doing damage and willfully causing destruction that's a different cause. When I was growing up my dad would take me and my brothers and sisters out to the west desert to Kelton, and other various sites out past promontory. There is a Sheriffs cabin WAY out there with bunk beds, a heater and a shack out back. Its a largish cabin with windows, cabinets etc.

We would go out there, spend the night or two and stock it with food and just do some target practice.

There's an issue I have with folks. I'm not saying you specifically did this, but it's common to run across empty brass or shotgun casings and destroyed TVs, computer equipment, etc. out in 'nowhere'. I'd love to see people take a little more pride in how they left things.

One time about 3-4 years ago we went out and someone had shot out the windows, damaged the building and did some stuff that would warrant a lynching party.

My dad and my brothers went home, got boards nails wood and whatever else was needed to fix up the place and did our best to fix it. If we were stuck out there there for who knows what I am comforted knowing it is still out there, and maintained. Its a historic building, I have no idea how old it is but its very old.

My dad calls it the Hogup Hilton, and I will have many dear memories attached to that place. So when people say that this individual in this thread and my brother and I parking on the lawn to take pics are criminally negligent as those individuals were who destroyed that Emergency cabin that really lights a fire under my ass.

Grow up and stop attacking people at every angle you can find just to make yourself feel better, have some maturity and think before you type.

I can't blame you for being upset about the cabin. I'd feel similarly, I'm sure. I wonder if those steps in the picture in question are all that's left of a similar cabin that is 100 years older than the one you're talking about?

 

[waynehartwig]

So when people say that this individual in this thread and my brother and I parking on the lawn to take pics are criminally negligent as those individuals were who destroyed that Emergency cabin that really lights a fire under my ass.

In my opinion it is the same thing. Granted, different degrees, but still....

 

[toys4rocks]

No Trax, This is just a simple question. No fights, no arguing, no pointing fingers. Just a simple question.

If you were an environmentalist looking for ammunition, would you take a picture of a bunch of soccer moms parking on the lawn or would you take a picture of a lifted truck? And try to use it against us?

Remember, we are all under heavy scrutiny, be it on the trail or on the freeway. We all have to stick together.

Ebrim, I am sorry you feel this way. This is the very attitude that helps get our trails closed. Just because it is not technically illegal, it doesn't look good for us to just drive over things like that.

And I don't think the internet makes it easier to be face less, I will sit down with any one of you face to face to talk about these issues. I think the internet is better used to teach awareness.

 

[RWH]

....soooo.... Don't drive over tree's, don't drive over scruboak, don't drive over sage brush...... REALLY don't drive over cement..... I think supercrawl might be in trouble....

 

[mbryson]

....soooo.... Don't drive over tree's, don't drive over scruboak, don't drive over sage brush...... REALLY don't drive over cement..... I think supercrawl might be in trouble....

These are some of the pictures I have issue with.

I'd rather see more like these ......

 

[Cherokeester]

You know I'm with you on the pictures, there is no reason to leave trail like that, and no reason to justify it either. Stay on the friggin trail please. A couple of weeks ago we did rattlesnake up to waynes world in the snow and somebody right at waynes world decided to "make trail" and dig up the entire side hill. Not cool at all. Wheel responsibly and don't make the rest of us lose our rights. thanks. edit: why a Landrover? Reddevil are you listening?

 

[RWH]

These are some of the pictures I have issue with.

Thankyou little jon, Thankyou. That's what i was looking for... THose i wouldn't support.

 

[e28bimmer]

???

Okay, now I’m really confused... Those pics are all on established trails. Very established trails!! Usually only visited by atvs, but still established trails.
I still stand behind every pic on the site, and hey, if SUWA or any other org. wants to start it, then bring it.
Here is my opinion on this... since no one felt the need to email me...

I have been searching out old ghost towns and mines for the past 17 years. In that time I have seen more and more trails closed, and more and more areas destroyed.. Not due to someone 4 wheeling or off roading, but just due to "taking it" from the "preservation orgs".
So my thought is this.. What is the last "historical site" that you saw any environmental group close?? Can I get a big 0!! None, however, they are on my back as well, calling mines and ghost towns scars on the land.
I’m not saying to desist current efforts, but I think the time has come to bring the fight to the environmentalists instead of sitting back and waiting for their next move.

This is how it has seemed to go: (note these groups are only for example)

SUWA: "we want to designate this 50000 area as wilderness, there are hardly any trails on it and it should be preserved."
OFF ROAD GROUP: “No way, we won’t stand behind that"
SUWA: That’s fine, we don’t care, and we will petition our contacts.
OFF ROAD GROUP:FINE!!
SUWA: or we could give you access to this little trail and 5 acres to off-road on if you get on board with this action.
OFF ROAD GROUP: Okay, yeah, we got five acres, we showed them!!!

Remember a few years ago when they tried to close some trails up little cottonwood and other canyons? Their argument was that the trails were hardly used and so they should be shut. The thing that kept the majority of them open was the fact that they were access roads to mines, which a lot of the off-road trails are. Some are less used than others, but they all go somewhere. The sites that were directly linked to mines were not closed, however the nature nazi orgs still feel the need to go put up signs and try to pretend that they are, because if no one drives on it and it becomes overgrown then they have more weight to their argument to close. So what if each of mines and ghost towns could be designated as a historical site, is SUWA going to try and block access to a historical site?? Maybe, but the USDA is more interested in promoting economic growth, (more historical sites, more stuff to see in Utah, more people come to the state and increase the tax base) So establishing these areas as historical would cut SUWA and other preservation groups directly out of the picture.
This entire concept is pretty hard to explain in text but hopefully you get the jist of where I’m going. I (usually) don’t break trails off road, and I don’t destroy things, I don’t shoot up old cars or burn old buildings.
And 99% of the time I am bringing home other peoples trash that was left on site...
But if you still think I'm wrong, that’s fine, like I said; if it disturbs you don’t look at it. The stuff I do may not be on the same page as the 4WDA, which is exactly why I am not a member, no one can associate me with any 4WD group, and as such, my actions are my own.

HOWEVER!! if going through mud puddles at high speed is destruction of the trail, I am guilty, and I can assure you I will strike again!!!

To close, please don’t take any of this as antagonistic, I understand that I’m not going to please everyone, but I’m doing what I think is best to preserve what is out there for as long as possible.
I came to this board because it seems like the majority of the people here are interested in visiting these sites and I would like to make them all more well known, trails will be cut in this effort I’m sure, but we will get by, after all if someone didn’t step off the trails, we wouldn’t have these mines or ghost towns to go visit, right??

My offer holds to take people out when we go, I usually post up the info here, and I don’t take any offense. geez... if I had a dollar for everyone I ever pissed off, I wouldn’t need donations!!