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Cody

Cody

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Location
Gastown
I mean, asking teachers to all carry and be comfortable using a firearm is kind of like asking all police officers to be trained in and capable of diagnosing and dealing with people with mental health issues. Let's be realistic. A weekend gun class is going to train someone to do something that the ****ing police on site were too afraid to do? Miss me with that nonsense.

People bristle at the idea of restructuring how the police force is trained and funded, yet still want to use mental health as an excuse for why guns aren't the problem. I own guns, pro gun rights, but why can't we look at changing a system that seems to fail a ton of people it's supposed to protect? Why can't we look at ways to better control or limit access to weapons? Why can't leo be redistributed in ways to potentially protect more vulnerable people from violence, and allow trained professionals to help deal with and perhaps preemptively identify mental health cases properly? Because that's not how it's always been done? It emasculates the police force or something? Because you may have a few less weapons to angrily shoot at the nuke dropping on you in the event a conflict ever escalates to the US? I legitimately don't understand.

Teachers with guns lol. I just picture my 65 year old 2nd grade teacher trying to pull a gun out to stop an armed shooter. You guys are really grasping at straws with that one.
 
SoopaHick

SoopaHick

Certified Weld Judger
Moderator
Location
Eagle Mountain, Utah
Cody said:
I mean, asking teachers to all carry and be comfortable using a firearm is kind of like asking all police officers to be trained in and capable of diagnosing and dealing with people with mental health issues. Let's be realistic. A weekend gun class is going to train someone to do something that the ****ing police on site were too afraid to do? Miss me with that nonsense.

People bristle at the idea of restructuring how the police force is trained and funded, yet still want to use mental health as an excuse for why guns aren't the problem. I own guns, pro gun rights, but why can't we look at changing a system that seems to fail a ton of people it's supposed to protect? Why can't we look at ways to better control or limit access to weapons? Why can't leo be redistributed in ways to potentially protect more vulnerable people from violence, and allow trained professionals to help deal with and perhaps preemptively identify mental health cases properly? Because that's not how it's always been done? It emasculates the police force or something? Because you may have a few less weapons to angrily shoot at the nuke dropping on you in the event a conflict ever escalates to the US? I legitimately don't understand.

Teachers with guns lol. I just picture my 65 year old 2nd grade teacher trying to pull a gun out to stop an armed shooter. You guys are really grasping at straws with that one.
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I hate the "all teachers should have guns argument." I think it was stated above, but a lot of people are not, nor ever will be, comfortable handling a firearm.

I just think that teachers in all schools should be allowed to carry and that they are able to receive free training to help in shooter situations if it's something they wish to take on. It's the Gun Free Zone stuff that makes me crazy. If a teacher feels competent enough they should be entirely allowed to protect their students with the best tools available to them.

As a college instructor I have to sit through all kinds of mindless trainings and am also required to seek out other trainings to improve my ability not only to teach my trade, but also to deal with student stress, emotions, suicide, Etc. Why isn't it also encouraged that I take an occasional class on how to best physically protect those students as well.

Sorry that was a long winded way to say:
No one should be required to carry protection, but it should be an option, and training should be readily available.
 
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glockman

glockman

I hate Jeep trucks
Location
Pleasant Grove
Cody said:
I mean, asking teachers to all carry and be comfortable using a firearm is kind of like asking all police officers to be trained in and capable of diagnosing and dealing with people with mental health issues. Let's be realistic. A weekend gun class is going to train someone to do something that the ****ing police on site were too afraid to do? Miss me with that nonsense.

People bristle at the idea of restructuring how the police force is trained and funded, yet still want to use mental health as an excuse for why guns aren't the problem. I own guns, pro gun rights, but why can't we look at changing a system that seems to fail a ton of people it's supposed to protect? Why can't we look at ways to better control or limit access to weapons? Why can't leo be redistributed in ways to potentially protect more vulnerable people from violence, and allow trained professionals to help deal with and perhaps preemptively identify mental health cases properly? Because that's not how it's always been done? It emasculates the police force or something? Because you may have a few less weapons to angrily shoot at the nuke dropping on you in the event a conflict ever escalates to the US? I legitimately don't understand.

Teachers with guns lol. I just picture my 65 year old 2nd grade teacher trying to pull a gun out to stop an armed shooter. You guys are really grasping at straws with that one.
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I'm as pro gun as you can be and I agree arming all teachers is not the solution. I'm all for the police having better training and not just firearms or tactical training but we are asking them to do too much just like requiring teacher to be security. I'm literally dumb founded that the police in Texas waited outside for an hour. They fought back parents while gun shots can be heard in the background. They waited for armor while unarmed kids and teachers were being shot. Those utter cowards should have trouble sleeping at night.
The police are just not able or in some cases willing to keep you safe. Look at Lauren Mclusky for a prime example. Add the Ukraine and Australia situations and I'm completely at a loss how people think more restrictive gun laws are the right move.
We have a population of young men who have grown up without a male role model, have been told they are the root of all societies problems, that they are oppressive to women while being raised by only a woman. They have instant gratification and on demand porn. We are going to see a lot more of this and nothing you do about guns will stop that.

Also, how did this drop out buy thousands of dollars of guns and ammo with cash?
 
Cody

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
glockman said:
I'm as pro gun as you can be and I agree arming all teachers is not the solution. I'm all for the police having better training and not just firearms or tactical training but we are asking them to do too much just like requiring teacher to be security. I'm literally dumb founded that the police in Texas waited outside for an hour. They fought back parents while gun shots can be heard in the background. They waited for armor while unarmed kids and teachers were being shot. Those utter cowards should have trouble sleeping at night.
The police are just not able or in some cases willing to keep you safe. Look at Lauren Mclusky for a prime example. Add the Ukraine and Australia situations and I'm completely at a loss how people think more restrictive gun laws are the right move.
We have a population of young men who have grown up without a male role model, have been told they are the root of all societies problems, that they are oppressive to women while being raised by only a woman. They have instant gratification and on demand porn. We are going to see a lot more of this and nothing you do about guns will stop that.

Also, how did this drop out buy thousands of dollars of guns and ammo with cash?
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I agree, which is why I thought it so crazy last year when people were calling for massive reform to the police system's structure and funding and everyone took it so personally.

I also read, and this is wholly unverified so I feel bad even saying it, that some of the police did enter the building just to get their own kids out of class.

As for the shooter. I don't know how much we really know about the kid. I've seen all sorts of people blaming illegal immigration or the drug cartel on this, but can illegal immigrants buy guns? What does the cartel get out of shooting up a school? For all we know the kid saved his money from mowing lawns and flipping burgers to go take out a school he spent his formative years possibly being bullied at or something.

I know this country has a deep rooted love for guns, but I think of them as wants vs needs. Do you need a hunting rifle or a handgun for self defense? Maybe/probably? Do you need an automatic weapon? Does it provide you anything besides recreational enjoyment? I realize bad guys will still get guns like that no matter what, but maybe not having them available over the counter or only available after extensive training and background checks would prevent a kid like this from doing something stupid? At least some of these situations could be prevented that way, but how many lives is too many before your want to put 6 extra rounds up a cottontail's ass outweighs societies need to limit some of this?
 
Hickey

Hickey

Burn-barrel enthusiast
Supporting Member
Location
Grantsville, Utah
Cody said:
I mean, asking teachers to all carry and be comfortable using a firearm is kind of like asking all police officers to be trained in and capable of diagnosing and dealing with people with mental health issues. Let's be realistic. A weekend gun class is going to train someone to do something that the ****ing police on site were too afraid to do? Miss me with that nonsense.

People bristle at the idea of restructuring how the police force is trained and funded, yet still want to use mental health as an excuse for why guns aren't the problem. I own guns, pro gun rights, but why can't we look at changing a system that seems to fail a ton of people it's supposed to protect? Why can't we look at ways to better control or limit access to weapons? Why can't leo be redistributed in ways to potentially protect more vulnerable people from violence, and allow trained professionals to help deal with and perhaps preemptively identify mental health cases properly? Because that's not how it's always been done? It emasculates the police force or something? Because you may have a few less weapons to angrily shoot at the nuke dropping on you in the event a conflict ever escalates to the US? I legitimately don't understand.

Teachers with guns lol. I just picture my 65 year old 2nd grade teacher trying to pull a gun out to stop an armed shooter. You guys are really grasping at straws with that one.
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I don't think anyone is asking ALL teachers to carry and be comfortable with it.
 
jeeper

jeeper

I live my life 1 dumpster at a time
Location
So Jo, Ut
Cody said:
I thought it so crazy last year when people were calling for massive reform to the police system's structure and funding and everyone took it so personally.
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Well, 'DEFUND THE POLICE' and 'REFORM THE POLICE' seem to have a different ring to them.

Especially when 'DEFUND THE POLICE' is being shouted by people burning buildings and causing riots.
 
mbryson

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Location
Bountiful, land of rocks
Cody said:
I agree, which is why I thought it so crazy last year when people were calling for massive reform to the police system's structure and funding and everyone took it so personally.

I also read, and this is wholly unverified so I feel bad even saying it, that some of the police did enter the building just to get their own kids out of class.

As for the shooter. I don't know how much we really know about the kid. I've seen all sorts of people blaming illegal immigration or the drug cartel on this, but can illegal immigrants buy guns? What does the cartel get out of shooting up a school? For all we know the kid saved his money from mowing lawns and flipping burgers to go take out a school he spent his formative years possibly being bullied at or something.

I know this country has a deep rooted love for guns, but I think of them as wants vs needs. Do you need a hunting rifle or a handgun for self defense? Maybe/probably? Do you need an automatic weapon? Does it provide you anything besides recreational enjoyment? I realize bad guys will still get guns like that no matter what, but maybe not having them available over the counter or only available after extensive training and background checks would prevent a kid like this from doing something stupid? At least some of these situations could be prevented that way, but how many lives is too many before your want to put 6 extra rounds up a cottontail's ass outweighs societies need to limit some of this?
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Just a quick clarification. Semi-automatic is NOT automatic
 
Herzog

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wydaho
Cody said:
Do you need an automatic weapon?
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Automatic weapons are already illegal to own without going through the process of being verified and approved by the ATF. You cannot buy an automatic weapon over the counter.

Semi-automatic (1 round per trigger pull) is what the majority of guns are. AR15 and variants are just normal semi-automatics that "look" scarier. There's no real difference as far as functionality is concerned. They use it as a prop because it "looks military".

The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting.
 
Cody

Cody

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Location
Gastown
Herzog said:
Automatic weapons are already illegal to own without going through the process of being verified and approved by the ATF. You cannot buy an automatic weapon over the counter.

Semi-automatic (1 round per trigger pull) is what the majority of guns are. AR15 and variants are just normal semi-automatics that "look" scarier. There's no real difference as far as functionality is concerned. They use it as a prop because it "looks military".

The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting.
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Ya I understand the semi auto thing, I just mis typed in haste.

I get the second amendment has nothing to do with hunting. I also get that the constitution was meant to be a living document and didn't necessarily get everything right at first nor forsee the nature of society 200+ years later at first. What was relevant then may not be that relevant now.

I guess in my opinion, if our government or some external group were really coming for the poeple here, our guns aren't going to make much difference. It's big bomb day.
 
glockman

glockman

I hate Jeep trucks
Location
Pleasant Grove
Cody said:
Ya I understand the semi auto thing, I just mis typed in haste.

I get the second amendment has nothing to do with hunting. I also get that the constitution was meant to be a living document and didn't necessarily get everything right at first nor forsee the nature of society 200+ years later at first. What was relevant then may not be that relevant now.

I guess in my opinion, if our government or some external group were really coming for the poeple here, our guns aren't going to make much difference. It's big bomb day.
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I don't think you are framing the situation realistically. Yes, if Russia wants to invade, it's big bomb day. That isn't the government tyranny that the founders put the 2nd in to address. It's the local sherrif that decides you are a criminal. It's the local police chief, ATF or IRS agent that gets tyrannical. It's the DFS coming to take your child because a doctor didn't like you getting a second opinion. Those situations have all happened in the last 30 years. Those people come for you with an AR and far less skill than I have. That's why I want an AR.
As for the living document, I agree. Can you name one ammendment that took away rights or was more restrictive? I dont know of one but I'm not a constitution buff either.
 
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Cody

Cody

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Location
Gastown
Herzog said:
I mean, a two decade hold out is pretty legit!
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Ya dude, they live in those mountains for generations and tanks/big bombs aren't that practical. It's guerilla warfare. Obviously if shit hit the fan here there would be holdouts in remote places that would be equally difficult to snuff out. The population centers however would fall quickly. I mean, how long did it take for the taliban to take Kabul?
 
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