stuck in the Nutty Putty

[cavebat]

across the opening
i didn't see anything in the photo and couldn't think
of any other way to keep you out?

There is a picture of the angle iron cave gate on their website. It looks pretty formidable to me. If it was built right no one is going to get in. Last time I saw a gate that someone tried to break into there was ALOT of blood all over the ground (apparently he cut his hand not the gate.)

I guess I have question: The paper seemed to imply that the pulley system they had set up and pulled him out with only had one anchor. That doesn't seem like the ideal rescue setup to me... Three seems pretty standard.

 

[PBandCJ]

There is a picture of the angle iron cave gate on their website. It looks pretty formidable to me. If it was built right no one is going to get in. .

and that web site photo is at the spot their showing on the news
so was it removed before this or did the rescuers remove it:sick:

 

[Coreshot]

and that web site photo is at the spot their showing on the news
so was it removed before this or did the rescuers remove it:sick:

The gate in the picture appears to be at the entrance to the cave, which is about 12 feet down the hole in the ground, the first place you have to squeeze through.

 

[PBandCJ]

yes, i was there back in 06 when it was frist talked about closing it(still could see the metal scrap around up top)but i never saw a lock let alone hinges.
So i'm wondering if it was been removed or modified to be the gate

 

[DOSS]

yes, i was there back in 06 when it was frist talked about closing it(still could see the metal scrap around up top)but i never saw a lock let alone hinges.
So i'm wondering if it was been removed or modified to be the gate

pic of the caves gate can be found halfway down this page (won't let me steal the link)

http://www.nuttyputtycave.com/status.html

 

[theferg]

Looks like Nutty Putty is going to be sealed off and permanently closed.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8820090

Officials halt efforts to remove body from cave
November 27th, 2009 @ 4:15pm
By John Hollenhorst

UTAH COUNTY -- The Nutty Putty Cave has become the permanent resting place for a young medical student who died after getting stuck in a small passage earlier this week.

Family of John Jones agreed with experts and government officials Friday -- there will be no further attempt to recover his body and the popular cave will be permanently sealed.

Jones died late Wednesday night after being trapped in the caves for more than 27 hours. Rescuers worked furiously to get him out -- but in the end ran out of time.

"It will be the final resting place for our son and our brother and husband. It's a place to honor and respect our brother," said Josh Jones, John's brother.

The announcement was made this afternoon at the Sheriff's Office in Utah County.

This has obviously been a tremendously difficult ordeal, not only for the family, but for rescuers. They struggled in the tight confines of the cave, so close to Jones, but were totally unable to extricate him.

All parties involved agreed unanimously the cave should be permanently sealed. They said it's just too dangerous and difficult to attempt a body recovery.

Sgt. Spencer Jones with the Utah County Sheriff's Office said Jones' body was stuck in an unnamed passageway about approximately 100 feet down and 400 feet from the entrance of the cave. They initially said he was stuck in an area known as Bob's Push, which turned out to be incorrect.

The crawlspaces where Jones got stuck are so tight, confining and convoluted that only tiny people could get to him, and they'd run a high risk of getting stuck themselves

The family was in total support of closing the cave. "We feel like it would be John's will to protect the safety of future cavers. We feel like not only is this the final resting place and it should be respected, it's also to protect future cavers," said Josh Jones.

Officials said they made the decision with full input from Jones' family.

"There will be allowed a monument that the family can place there, that they feel is appropriate," said Utah County Sheriff Jim Tracy. "They will be kept in the loop on the construction and the materials and the way it's done so they can finalize their plan for an appropriate monument to their son."

Out of respect for the family, and for the safety of the public, the cave will be guarded around the clock to keep people out until the cave is sealed off.

Friends and family said Jones was someone who lived life to the fullest -- who loved the outdoors and exploring caves.

He is survived by his pregnant wife and 14-month-old daughter.

The services for Jones will be Saturday morning at 11:00 at the LDS Stansbury Park Stake Center.

​

 

[SAMI]

Man he was so young.. To leave a wife and two little ones behind.. So sad

 

[scoutabout]

I guess access management by the grottos didn't work this time. Sad story. Sad to see the cave close.

 

[Cherokeester]

I am also disturbed the cave will be closed for good. I feel for the family and friends, I guess the whole community pays the price when something like this happens. I don't think closing caves is the answer to protect other cavers though.

 

[RockMonkey]

I am also disturbed the cave will be closed for good. I feel for the family and friends, I guess the whole community pays the price when something like this happens. I don't think closing caves is the answer to protect other cavers though.

No certainly not. If he was really a caver, I seriously doubt it would have been his wishes, either.

Good thing it wasn't one of the good caves. That place has been trashed for years. Unfortunately the uninformed masses will move to another cave now and destroy it, too.

 

[bradm]

Very, very sad story and I feel for his pregnant wife and family. Thoughts and prayers are with them.

 

[cavebat]

No certainly not. If he was really a caver, I seriously doubt it would have been his wishes, either.

Good thing it wasn't one of the good caves. That place has been trashed for years. Unfortunately the uninformed masses will move to another cave now and destroy it, too.

I am in agreement with you.

I find it a little odd that they are closing the cave and leaving the body. I find this whole thing a little odd. First they have him hoisted out of the hole long enough to give him some food and water, then their rope or anchor breaks and he falls back (depends on which story you believe). Then the cave is to dangerous to recover the body? Im sure glad I dont live in Utah, sounds like their Cave Rescue system is a little lacking. I just have to shake my head, we have cavers good enough to recover a body from one of the most (if not the most) isolated, difficult, and dangerous in the world (Huautla) but they cant get a guy out of a little beginner cave?

I agree that this is a sad and unfortunate end, but this is what happens when people get in over their head (no pun intended). He obviously was not an experienced caver otherwise he wouldnt have been going DOWN a hole head first. And he obviously didnt have an experienced caver with him to tell him not to do it in the first place. You dont go down a hole head first unless you KNOW what is at the bottom and unless you know that you will make it through just fine.

 

[SAMI]

From what I've read, I think the statements of the guy being lifted out then falling back in are incorrect. Unofficial reports of COD are that all the fluids pooled in his head too long. This is also why they couldn't give him an IV, which would've sped up the COD.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I've been loosely following this.

 

[DOSS]

From what I've read, I think the statements of the guy being lifted out then falling back in are incorrect. Unofficial reports of COD are that all the fluids pooled in his head too long. This is also why they couldn't give him an IV, which would've sped up the COD.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I've been loosely following this.

He was pulled a distance (not far enough to give food etc) then a bolt pulled from the wall and allowed him to slide back down to basically where he started.. I don't see how they can ever give an official COD with only his calves and feet available for examination.

 

[Spork]

Better Caves have been closed for lesser reasons...

 

[cavebat]

He was pulled a distance (not far enough to give food etc) then a bolt pulled from the wall and allowed him to slide back down to basically where he started.. I don't see how they can ever give an official COD with only his calves and feet available for examination.

I fail to see how they can get to his feet and not be able to rescue him. My question still stand of what monkey was running that show that the one chance of rescuing him (the rope) was dependent on ONE bolt. I realize it is very easy for me to sit here behind my computer and criticize a situation that I was not involved in, but every cave rescuer knows that you slow down and take the time to do it right the first time otherwise more people will end up in the same situation your victim is in. If I remember correctly the standard practice is for ropes to have at least 3 bolts in a rescue, more than you would regularly rig a drop with. That is just for safety reasons because many times in a rescue you will have more than one person weighting those bolts, or they will be put under stress that isn't normal.

I guess I am just astounded that they would so easily give up on the body recovery. It is just gruesome that they are leaving him there like that. Granted if I was dead in a cave somewhere I wouldn't want anyone to die saving my body, but a cave is a cave and it can be safely rigged to allow his body to be recovered. They might have to think out side the box on it (ie. Floyd Collins), but there is always a way, it was a beginners cave.

 

[RockMonkey]

So, I got a little more reliable information this morning. My dad is heavily involved in the caving community, and he got the story from folks that were there. First, the victim was an experienced caver and an NSS member. He was the real deal, but he made a couple mistakes that cost him his life.

He was apparently lost. He thought he was in Bob's Push, but was mistaken. He thought he did know what was at the bottom, but it turns out he was in a small dead-end passage. There are very tight squeezes just to get to where he was. That's the excuse for "the rescue being too dangerous". Supposedly there is a risk of rescuers getting similarly stuck just getting to where he is.

Second, he was never free. They managed to pull him back out a little bit, enough to get access to his feet. There was still a long way to go to get him out. They did get an IV started in his foot. The single anchor did fail, and he did fall a small distance back down. The position he fell back into compressed his chest, and he could not breath (or could only take shallow breaths).

Nutty Putty is a kind of unusual cave. Most of the walls are a little soft (hence the name) and it would be difficult to get a strong and reliable anchor in them. There is certainly room for discussion about whether mutiple anchors could have and should have been used, to prevent this accident.

It sounds like the family did not initially want the cave closed, but were pressured into it by the Sherrif's Department. They have been trying to get it closed for years, and they weren't going to let this opportunity pass.

Lastly, our cave search and rescue team is 100% volunteer, and is of world class quality. They do an excellent job, and have successfully responded to many calls. If I were stuck in a cave I would want no other team to respond. I'm 100% confident that this rescue failure will be examined in minute detail, and if any changes to policy and procedures need to be made, they will be.

 

[SAMI]

Thank you for the added info Braden.

 

[Herzog]

That's great info Braden, pretty much the reason I waited to comment. What a tragety. Best wishes to his wife & kids.

 

[Amy]

So, I got a little more reliable information this morning. My dad is heavily involved in the caving community, and he got the story from folks that were there. First, the victim was an experienced caver and an NSS member. He was the real deal, but he made a couple mistakes that cost him his life.

He was apparently lost. He thought he was in Bob's Push, but was mistaken. He thought he did know what was at the bottom, but it turns out he was in a small dead-end passage. There are very tight squeezes just to get to where he was. That's the excuse for "the rescue being too dangerous". Supposedly there is a risk of rescuers getting similarly stuck just getting to where he is.

Second, he was never free. They managed to pull him back out a little bit, enough to get access to his feet. There was still a long way to go to get him out. They did get an IV started in his foot. The single anchor did fail, and he did fall a small distance back down. The position he fell back into compressed his chest, and he could not breath (or could only take shallow breaths).

Nutty Putty is a kind of unusual cave. Most of the walls are a little soft (hence the name) and it would be difficult to get a strong and reliable anchor in them. There is certainly room for discussion about whether mutiple anchors could have and should have been used, to prevent this accident.

It sounds like the family did not initially want the cave closed, but were pressured into it by the Sherrif's Department. They have been trying to get it closed for years, and they weren't going to let this opportunity pass.

Lastly, our cave search and rescue team is 100% volunteer, and is of world class quality. They do an excellent job, and have successfully responded to many calls. If I were stuck in a cave I would want no other team to respond. I'm 100% confident that this rescue failure will be examined in minute detail, and if any changes to policy and procedures need to be made, they will be.

Damn.