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stuck in the Nutty Putty

C

cavebat

New Member
RockMonkey said:
So, I got a little more reliable information this morning. My dad is heavily involved in the caving community, and he got the story from folks that were there. First, the victim was an experienced caver and an NSS member. He was the real deal, but he made a couple mistakes that cost him his life. :(

He was apparently lost. He thought he was in Bob's Push, but was mistaken. He thought he did know what was at the bottom, but it turns out he was in a small dead-end passage. There are very tight squeezes just to get to where he was. That's the excuse for "the rescue being too dangerous". Supposedly there is a risk of rescuers getting similarly stuck just getting to where he is.

Second, he was never free. They managed to pull him back out a little bit, enough to get access to his feet. There was still a long way to go to get him out. They did get an IV started in his foot. The single anchor did fail, and he did fall a small distance back down. The position he fell back into compressed his chest, and he could not breath (or could only take shallow breaths).

Nutty Putty is a kind of unusual cave. Most of the walls are a little soft (hence the name) and it would be difficult to get a strong and reliable anchor in them. There is certainly room for discussion about whether mutiple anchors could have and should have been used, to prevent this accident.

It sounds like the family did not initially want the cave closed, but were pressured into it by the Sherrif's Department. They have been trying to get it closed for years, and they weren't going to let this opportunity pass. :rolleyes:

Lastly, our cave search and rescue team is 100% volunteer, and is of world class quality. They do an excellent job, and have successfully responded to many calls. If I were stuck in a cave I would want no other team to respond. I'm 100% confident that this rescue failure will be examined in minute detail, and if any changes to policy and procedures need to be made, they will be.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the information. Good to hear some first hand info.
Sounds like it was just a bunch of compounding mistakes that kept getting worse (getting lost, going head first which is really questionable in most situation, lack of anchors). Sad situation.

I'm sorry, the way I typed it I didn't make myself clear about my criticism of the rescue team. From first had experience I know what happens on rescues. It turns into a big pissing match over who has the most authority. The firedepartment jumps in, then the sheriff, then the cave owner, all who generally don't know what is going on. Then there are people on the rescue team that are in it just to seem cool, or they are the older arm chair cavers that are in it for the politics. I am sure ingeneral your rescue network is great, but egos get in the way and authority goes to those that dont need it. Sorry if I came off as a jerk.
 
C

cavebat

New Member
Tacoma said:
Compounded errors indeed. I'm a little confused as to why the single anchor as well... but it's a moot point now. :(
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Moot point indeed. Only thing to do now is just learn from what went wrong here. And this story goes as a good example of what it is a horribly bad idea to go head first down a hole unless you know EXACTLY where you are and what you are doing. Heck even then I still prefer not doing, people get fatter, rocks fall, things change, I would always like a way to go back up.
 
turbohaulic

turbohaulic

I don't know it just is!
Location
Hyde Park, UT
Thanks rockmonkey, there's alot of diff stories out there its nice to hear one that sounds right. Sad story though, looks like he had a cute family he left behind:(
 
mesha

mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
Just talked to someone that was there. I will see what info I can talk about.
 
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Kris K

Kris K

4x4 Addict!
Location
Heber City, UT
It gets my heart pumping just thinking about being trapped in a small place like that.

If they put up a monument like there saying, i feel it will be a waste as it will just become someones target.
 
yellowjacket

yellowjacket

Much more comfortable
Location
Eagle Mountain
I have been watching this from the beginning. I feel sad for the family. However, I also feel sad for all the future explorers. I am opposed to the closing of the entire cave. Of course if there's a body left, that section should be sealed. Sounds like that section should have been sealed already. I didn't see this posted, so I wanted to do so now.
I have searched and haven't found an actual petition yet, but I did find this:

Tyler E. wrote ........
- I have set up an email address to collect pettitions to save Nutty Putty Cave

Savenuttyputtycave@gmail.com

Please add your name to our list of people if you don't want this cave closed.

Important: Please write (Save Nutty Putty) in your subject line

And feel free to write your comments in the email so we can convince our government to preserve the one of Utah's greatest treasures
And if you really feel stongly about this please forward this to all your friends.

Thanks for your help
Tyler

MY EMAIL:
I have called and left messages with Sitla at 801-538-5100. I feel bad for the family and kid, but one bad decision shouldn't condemn a place that safely sees over 5,000 people per year. If we continue down this path, we will be stuck in our padded homes. Makes no sense! Please don't close Nutty Putty Caves. If a body "must" remain in the dangerous section that he shouldn't have been in, seal in that section only.
 
Grim

Grim

Well-Known Member
Location
Roy, UT
yellowjacket said:
I have been watching this from the beginning. I feel sad for the family. However, I also feel sad for all the future explorers. I am opposed to the closing of the entire cave. Of course if there's a body left, that section should be sealed. Sounds like that section should have been sealed already. I didn't see this posted, so I wanted to do so now.
I have searched and haven't found an actual petition yet, but I did find this:

Tyler E. wrote ........
- I have set up an email address to collect pettitions to save Nutty Putty Cave

Savenuttyputtycave@gmail.com

Please add your name to our list of people if you don't want this cave closed.

Important: Please write (Save Nutty Putty) in your subject line

And feel free to write your comments in the email so we can convince our government to preserve the one of Utah's greatest treasures
And if you really feel stongly about this please forward this to all your friends.

Thanks for your help
Tyler

MY EMAIL:
I have called and left messages with Sitla at 801-538-5100. I feel bad for the family and kid, but one bad decision shouldn't condemn a place that safely sees over 5,000 people per year. If we continue down this path, we will be stuck in our padded homes. Makes no sense! Please don't close Nutty Putty Caves. If a body "must" remain in the dangerous section that he shouldn't have been in, seal in that section only.
Click to expand...


X2 , e-mail sent
 
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yellowjacket

yellowjacket

Much more comfortable
Location
Eagle Mountain
Grim said:
X2 , e-mail sent
Click to expand...
Excellent man!

New KSL article

December 2nd, 2009 @ 3:09pm
By Randall Jeppesen
UTAH COUNTY -- A growing number of cavers are trying to find ways to persuade officials to keep the Nutty Putty caves open.

Benjamin Allen has been in the Nutty Putty caves dozens of times and says he used to take therapy groups there to teach people how to overcome fears and gain confidence.

"I think it's done so much good for so many people, because as they go in there it's just like conquering a climbing wall or something. You feel confident. You've done something that you were afraid to do. Shutting the caves would be a great loss to all of us," Allen says.

He's proposing only the lower sections of the caves be sealed off, and he's even willing to pay to have it done himself.

"I would pay for it and take people in there, and we could close off the bottom section," Allen says. "The rest of the cave could still remain open.

Michael Douglas takes nature groups through Nutty Putty and says he's been in the caves at least 45 times in the past 10 years with kids as young as 5 years old.

"We're in mourning. We are very disappointed to see this shut down," Douglas says. "There are other caving opportunities in the area, but Nutty Putty is a very unique feature and we hope that if there is the opportunity to keep it open that somebody might here us and might open that discussion as quickly as possible.

The email address savenuttyputtycave@gmail.com has been set up by a group hoping to keep the caves open, and they're directing their efforts toward the State Trust Lands Management which owns the property.

Sgt. Spencer Cannon with the Utah County Sheriff's office says his office is receiving phone calls from people upset by the caves' closure. However, he says the decision made by the groups overseeing the caves -- including the sheriff's office and the State Trust Lands -- will be enforced and the caves sealed off.

"We understand that people like to go there, and we don't take likely a decision to shut off an attraction that has been popular to so many people," Cannon says. "But the determination was made that the risk was just too high to leave it open."

Cannon says during the process, agencies did discuss closing only the portion of the cave where John Jones died but decided there were many different sections of the cave that also were dangerous.

The idea was also brought up to close the cave for 10 or more years and then go in and recover the remains and open the rest of the cave back up. Cannon says that was decided against as well in part because the body is stuck in a steep area that is difficult to get to and the remains might fall deeper where they can never be recovered.
 
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