Utah Rave Update

[phillippi]

Notice how there isnt any mention of police brutality or beatings or dog mauling. Now they are saying that the law isnt right? Who cares what they think. Lets go to a majority rules and vote to see if we want that element in hosting parties. Im sure if the general public would have seen the drugs, weapons, etc there that night and any other rave party then they would give us (cops) a free hand to get rid of it.

 

[Bone Down]

Notice how there isnt any mention of police brutality or beatings or dog mauling. Now they are saying that the law isnt right? Who cares what they think. Lets go to a majority rules and vote to see if we want that element in hosting parties. Im sure if the general public would have seen the drugs, weapons, etc there that night and any other rave party then they would give us (cops) a free hand to get rid of it.

Yup, I think that is due to the fact that there was none.

Article also mentions Child's Family Ranch (or something).
What if the county decides to go after them for allowing the drugs and the illegal concert to take place on their property?

Most likely the Rave organizer could care less about the land owner so why not keep this in the news and media for as long as possible crying foul everywhere.

 

[phillippi]

The Child's are also involved in the lawsuit. But what is not stated anywhere is that there was rampant drug use at this rave. That alone is enough for us to go in and shut it down. Permits or not, if its illegal (based on drug use) and letting it go would cause more harm then good, then shut it down in a controlled way. Either way you look at it, the promotors and land owners are pissing into the wind....

 

[Amy]

The Child's are also involved in the lawsuit. But what is not stated anywhere is that there was rampant drug use at this rave. That alone is enough for us to go in and shut it down. Permits or not, if its illegal (based on drug use) and letting it go would cause more harm then good, then shut it down in a controlled way. Either way you look at it, the promotors and land owners are pissing into the wind....

Then you might as well shut down every concert that exists. Drugs unfortunantly are not just at raves, they are EVERYWHERE!!! Becuase raves do not have a ton of money to host events, like a major pop or rock concert, there is no money left for the promoter to pay off the authoritys to look the other way.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Then you might as well shut down every concert that exists. Drugs unfortunantly are not just at raves, they are EVERYWHERE!!!

More drugs Per capita? No way, been to plenty of concerts, even been to some psuedo-raves back when I was in HS... no comparison hands down. Plus the severity of the drugs IMHO is different, weed versus X...

Other concerts don't:

Fail to get proper permits
Fail to clean up their mess afterwards
Take place on public property and refuse to allow the public in*

*previous rave by same group that occured at Little Moab, they told 4x4 people they had "rented" the area and to leave. SITLA has no record of the property being leased, they promoters gave money to a rancher who claimed to own the property.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

... Becuase raves do not have a ton of money to host events, like a major pop or rock concert, there is no money left for the promoter to pay off the authoritys to look the other way.

So you think promoters like X96 pay authorities to look the other way? Hardly... rather they hire PROFESSIONAL & LICENSED security guards.

Funny they don't have money... the ravers themselves claimed to have sold ~3500 tickets ~$15-$20 each, that is roughly $60k

 

[Amy]

Apparently Utah does not know how to throw a good party...and I cant blame them.

 

[Bone Down]

Well if i recall it was stated in one of the earlier posts that it was after under cover's made several drug buys, it wass then that they decicde to shut it down before it became a larger crowd and a larger problem.

Rave or not the promotor's are not securing or setting up proper permits/venues to make events go off without problems.

The more press this situation gets the more the parents and religious leaders of Utah take notice and start their protest to even allowing such events to take place in the future, and possibly spilling over into other large gatherings rave or not.

And could lead to city/county leaders to making even more strictor rules to even be able to obtain legal permits.

This particular promotor is only making matters worse, and should just shut up, move on, and learn from this incident on what not to do in the future as well as what to do in order to make any future event legit.

 

[Amy]

Well if i recall it was stated in one of the earlier posts that it was after under cover's made several drug buys, it wass then that they decicde to shut it down before it became a larger crowd and a larger problem.

Rave or not the promotor's are not securing or setting up proper permits/venues to make events go off without problems.

The more press this situation gets the more the parents and religious leaders of Utah take notice and start their protest to even allowing such events to take place in the future, and possibly spilling over into other large gatherings rave or not.

And could lead to city/county leaders to making even more strictor rules to even be able to obtain legal permits.

This particular promotor is only making matters worse, and should just shut up, move on, and learn from this incident on what not to do in the future as well as what to do in order to make any future event legit.

I agree with you. I have not been to a rave in Utah but I have been to raves in California, Arizona and Colorado and the tons of raves I have been to there has been Professional & Licensed Security guards. I will admit that there was one party I went to in a High School that was way out of control, but there is always one! I dont think that raves belong in Utah becuase Utah does not have a "crazy awesome party" image to handle the evil side of life! HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Herzog]

This particular promotor is only making matters worse, and should just shut up, move on, and learn from this incident on what not to do in the future as well as what to do in order to make any future event legit.

I say the promotors can do what ever they want within legal boundary. They are not guilty until proven guilty... remember that saying?

I just find it amazing how "one sided" this story is. I'm not for either side, nor do I care if they were in the right or wrong to host this "rave". People do much worse things out there than hosting "raves".

I had a bad run in with police before... of course I was "guilty" in everybodies eyes, but the court system turned around and helped me out and was able to show my side of the story that nobody else could see. Why not wait for that day. Sometimes the system really does work.

 

[Herzog]

And just to throw this into the mix...

Raves are HEAVILY stereo typed. Sound familiar? Kind of like our Sport?

A lot of people to go for the music and dancing and it isn't about the drugs. But that's the side you will hardly ever see because of the way the media and other people present it.

Edit: Quite the double standard don't you think? Bashing another hobby when we are fighting for our own rights to do what we love.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I say the promotors can do what ever they want within legal boundary. They are not guilty until proven guilty... remember that saying?....

I agree there... and in fact, the drug scene at their raves doesn't really bother me as much as the promoters failing to comply with the law. If they get the proper permits & security in the future, then so be it, let them rave. Better they be in the hills partying that in town, etc.

I really have nothing against the ravers themselves, rather the promoters that make them look bad. Had the promoter received the proper permits, I don't think the Ut Co. Sheriff would have gone in...

 

[Amy]

I am evil! Hide your children!! I LOVE techno, breakbeats, house, hip-hip, jungle, ambiance, psycho trance, and trance!!! I am a bad person!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Herzog]

I am evil!

This is true.

 

[Amy]

This is true.

 

[phillippi]

But the Sheriff has stated many times to the Utrave.org and media (and I do believe him) that if they get the permits and dont allow drugs (they allow and condone drug use) then dance away. The gathering of all those people isnt the problem. Its the problem of people beinging in alot of drugs, and a huge majority of the rave attendies that use drugs that cause the problems.

Look at the little moab rave this summer. What you didnt hear was over 100 vehicle burglaries (security where), numerous rapes, intoxicated juveniles everywhere, dui's leaving all over the place and a lot getting arrested for it, etc.

Everyone knows there is drugs everywhere, but why let it happen in an uncontrolled way? At concerts they almost always have the local cops there in addition to their security guards. I have been to both raves and concerts and it isnt even close to being the same with all the problems.

Anyway, no one ever said they are guilty. Those involved with the rave were taken to jail and will be dealt with in the courts.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Quite the double standard don't you think? Bashing another hobby when we are fighting for our own rights to do what we love.

Quite the opposite IMHO...

We are law-abiding recreationalists trying to keep public lands public. I know that the U4WDA works our butts off to keep our events legit including permits, etc. And we would never tell another land user that they "cannot" use the areas we have "rented."

We are not fighting for a right per say, rahter we are fighting that our existing right be protected from those that don't like it... Rave promoters don't have the right to host illegal parties without permits, such would be against the law.

As I have said, if they had the proper permits for this and past raves, I would have nothing against them, in fact I have said before that many of them are upstanding responsible land users that stand on the same ground as us when it comes to land rights.

Just as in our sport, there are a few bad seeds ruining it for the entire group, but in there case the bad seed is not only the drug users that merit the police involvment, but the promoters that faily to comply...

 

[Amy]

Ok, what have we all learned here!

DO NOT THROW A RAVE FOR DANCING OR A CONCERT IN WHICH THE MUSIC INVOLVES "DIRTY WORDS" IN UTAH COUNTY!!!

It just does'nt work.

 

[phillippi]

Ok, what have we all learned here!

DO NOT THROW A RAVE FOR DANCING OR A CONCERT IN WHICH THE MUSIC INVOLVES "DIRTY WORDS" IN UTAH COUNTY!!!

What does Dirty words have to do with anything???? I have yet to hear from either side that dirty words had anything to do with the rave being broken up.

 

[my4thjeep]

Ok, what have we all learned here!

DO NOT THROW A RAVE FOR DANCING OR A CONCERT IN WHICH THE MUSIC INVOLVES "DIRTY WORDS" IN UTAH COUNTY!!!

It just does'nt work.

Gee and I thought we had learned not to throw parties without the proper permits, don't use drugs in public, don't drive drunk and don't drink if you are under age.

We have become a society that won't take responsibility for our own actions so we sue the government to protect us from ourselves and when our government protects us from ourselves we sue because our rights were violated. If you don’t want trouble follow the law or if you don’t like the law do something to change it and preferably not by frivolous lawsuits that waste tax money that could be used for more productive tasks like better schools, better roads and/or public safety.