Walking Targets, by I Lean
- Thread starter Greg
- Start date
How can you increase velocity and decrease speed at the same time?
sorry, it was supposed to say accuracy. I fixed it.:-\
Last edited:
solidfrontaxle
Toyota jihad
- Location
- Casper, Wyoming
I've always been told a .22lr reaches max velocity at three or so inches. After that the barrel is just slowing it down (but yes, increasing accuracy). I know if you shoot alot of lead bullets it can really gum up a barrel too which can slow it down a ton and totally thrash your accuracy. I've seen it happen over the course of even 100 rounds. Groups start tiny and expand as the barrel gums up.
- Location
- West Bountiful, UT
Very ammo specific. High intensity LR ammo like Stingers or Aquila MP can keep gaining velocity from a lot more barrel length than sub sonic target ammo can, for instance.
And longer barrels are not more accurate. Period. Not in the purest sense of least potential bullet dispersion on target anyway. If using iron sights, a longer sight radius will help with aiming precision, but that is not even relevant for telescopic sights.
A gross over simplification is that the more rigid a barrel is, the lower the amplitude of the barrel harmonics, the less potential for bullet dispersion. Shorter barrels are more rigid. Always. All else being equal. So, shorter barrels are more accurate, all else being equal.
But, with rimfires, it's really not quite all that cut and dried. The comparatively low amplitude of the barrel harmonics make longer barrels easier to tune, with longer sweet spots in the harmonics. Shorter barrels, while having lower amplitude, have higher frequency, making them more difficult to tune.
Again, becomes very ammo specific. If you happen to find the right lot of ammo to have the bullet exiting the barrel at a harmonic node on the short barrel, it will have more total accuracy potential than the longer barrel with greater amplitude. But, in the real world, it's easier to find ammo to match the sweet spot (node) of longer barrel, or, more often in high precision applications, to actively tune the barrel to the lot of ammo.
So, most really high end rimfire target shooters do favor longer barrels (and tuners). But it's not for the reasons most people seem to believe (unless it's an iron sight discipline).
Centerfires with their much greater amplitude of barrel harmonics are a different story.
And none of this really means anything for us plinkers.
- DAA
And longer barrels are not more accurate. Period. Not in the purest sense of least potential bullet dispersion on target anyway. If using iron sights, a longer sight radius will help with aiming precision, but that is not even relevant for telescopic sights.
A gross over simplification is that the more rigid a barrel is, the lower the amplitude of the barrel harmonics, the less potential for bullet dispersion. Shorter barrels are more rigid. Always. All else being equal. So, shorter barrels are more accurate, all else being equal.
But, with rimfires, it's really not quite all that cut and dried. The comparatively low amplitude of the barrel harmonics make longer barrels easier to tune, with longer sweet spots in the harmonics. Shorter barrels, while having lower amplitude, have higher frequency, making them more difficult to tune.
Again, becomes very ammo specific. If you happen to find the right lot of ammo to have the bullet exiting the barrel at a harmonic node on the short barrel, it will have more total accuracy potential than the longer barrel with greater amplitude. But, in the real world, it's easier to find ammo to match the sweet spot (node) of longer barrel, or, more often in high precision applications, to actively tune the barrel to the lot of ammo.
So, most really high end rimfire target shooters do favor longer barrels (and tuners). But it's not for the reasons most people seem to believe (unless it's an iron sight discipline).
Centerfires with their much greater amplitude of barrel harmonics are a different story.
And none of this really means anything for us plinkers
.- DAA
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
very slick units Carl, thanks again. will these things handle anything like an ar15 or a 30-30?
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
Most centerfire rifle rounds will pierce the steel. I have pierced 1/8 mild steel with my 17hmr.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
My new ones are made with 1/4" ar500. I imageine they'll handle 9mm-45 cal, I'm just wondering where the threshold is.
I haven't been able to 'test' them, but my gut feeling is they'll be great with pistol rounds and smaller rifles, but faster rifle rounds will start turning them into consumable items.
I look forward to hearing back from people as that threshold gets narrowed down.
I look forward to hearing back from people as that threshold gets narrowed down.
Brian P
Misanthropic Fuel
- Location
- Taylorsville
CRAP! I better get there sooner than later if they are flying off the shelf...
Spork
Tin Foil Hat Equipped
- Location
- Saratoga Springs, UT
On the old style I just bent the ear with my 9mm so I think these should be fine.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
I haven't been able to 'test' them, but my gut feeling is they'll be great with pistol rounds and smaller rifles, but faster rifle rounds will start turning them into consumable items.
I look forward to hearing back from people as that threshold gets narrowed down.
They might even be tested with .223 and 30-06 by this evening? Possible
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
I really dig the size of my 1.5x target. I imagine a 9 or .40 would be able tip one of those over no problem.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Here is the 9mm. The AR500 can easily handle those. I didn't have a higher caliber handgun. I'd assume it would handle a .40 or .45 but would like to test those. (maybe I'll have to head to the gun store tomorrow?
)
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Here's my .223. I'm shooting PMC FMJ. The one shot near the center is luck. These suckers are hard to hit that precisely. (shooting from a crouch position with the gun stabilized on a block of wood--I should have brought a tripod or something and shot from a prone position--oh, rifle shots were at about 40-45 yards) The second shot in the neck of the gadget is the weakest spot on the target. The .223 didn't really phase it that much.
The center hit dimpled the target which proved to be unusual for that weapon. Here's the backside of that impact.
The AR500 seems to handle the .223 pretty well. Some impacts will cause some damage with the FMJ. I did have some varmint tips as well and thought I'd see what they do. They do less damage than the FMJ but you can tell they are shattering as they impact.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
OK, now we head to an actual powerful gun. 30-06. Not exactly sexy, but a solid round and more capable than people will give it credit for. These are capable of hitting targets at 1000 yards (you're down to 700ish fps depending on your round). At 50 yards, this thing is bringing a load. Here's the photos.
My first shot with the 30-06 I whacked the bolt holding the target together. Not the greatest shot. About 4" below where I was aiming at 50 yards (I was using this gun to "sniper" shoot in May....haven't shot it since and I'm pretty confident it's not "zeroed" at all). I grabbed the bolt from my other target and tried it again.
2nd round impact. The 30-06 knocked the target about 9-10 yards. Hit VERY hard on the second shot.
Here's my third shot. Directly through the target. I didn't hit it far enough out for the lever to spin the target. The round passed directly through.
My first shot with the 30-06 I whacked the bolt holding the target together. Not the greatest shot. About 4" below where I was aiming at 50 yards (I was using this gun to "sniper" shoot in May....haven't shot it since and I'm pretty confident it's not "zeroed" at all). I grabbed the bolt from my other target and tried it again.
2nd round impact. The 30-06 knocked the target about 9-10 yards. Hit VERY hard on the second shot.
Here's my third shot. Directly through the target. I didn't hit it far enough out for the lever to spin the target. The round passed directly through.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
those held up better than i thought. Thanks for the report Mark.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Oh, more to come. We have an AR500 3/8" thick version to try out the 30-06 and ????. We'll see how it holds up. I'd expect it to work well with how the 1/4" one works. I'll also zero my 30-06 scope in so I can hit something.
Might not happen tomorrow, but sometime this weekend.
Might not happen tomorrow, but sometime this weekend.
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
Excellent! I want some of those targets bad!