glockman
I hate Jeep trucks
- Location
- Pleasant Grove
I pronounce it, "no dnf's"
General Tech What did you work on Today?
- Thread starter Gravy
- Start date
That hurts a lot more than I thought it would.
- Location
- West Haven, UT
Got home from work late yesterday and only had about an hour or so in the shop but was able to get the gears mocked up and test fit about 4 times so ready for final assembly.
Spicer and Richmond used to engrave the pinion to center line dimension in their pinions but most oversees units these days do not mark them. They rely on you as the installer locating the perfect pinion depth based on tooth pattern readings. Time can be somewhat reduced if you know what the ideal pinion depth is supposed to be right out of the box. This is a Motive Gear set and they engraved the ideal pinion depth on the end of the pinion so that was a nice surprise. I also saw indications that the ring and pinion were "run-in" on a fixture as I could see a very faint wear pattern on the set as I removed it from the solvent tank after cleaning the corrosion protection off the new gear set.
I have a couple of different pinion depth tools to locate center but sometimes simpler is better. My Kent Moore kit has a lot of pieces and measurements that must be taken and I have used it mostly when a client brought me a bare new housing and we had no starting point. This was more prevalent back in my racing days when a guy would bring me a bare shortened axle housing but I've also done some with Jeeps lately with getting either new Currie or Dynatrac bare housings brought to me.
A simple check is to use a precision ground bar and lay it across the bearing cap parting line as this is the axle shaft centerline. From there measure to the end of the pinion then subtract the thickness of the bar. My first test I used my setup bearings on the pinion with no shims.
That measurement indicated I needed to install the .025" shim that I had removed from the original pinion. This makes perfect sense because from my experience over the past 30+ years of building rear ends, I have found that the machining tolerances and manufacturing tolerances have been so close and held to such tight tolerances that carrier to carrier or ring and pinion to ring and pinion as well as just tearing down to replace bearings that most do not require any alterations or adjustments in very small increments. My experiences has been the bigger differences are in the housings themselves. I have found when working on a particular rear end housing there will be very very small dimensional changes in comparison to when a new housing in introduced into the equation.
Here I am merely using one of my .500 thick parallels from my milling machine as it is a precision ground tool.
Laying it across the cap separation or parting lines then measuring to the pinion.
3.251" is what I measured on all three attempts.
This could easily be done in your head but for demonstration purposes plug that 3.251" dimension into your calculator.
Measure the bar in which you used for taking the measurement. In this case .500" or 1/2".
Subtract that .500" from the initial measurement.
And this is what your measurement reads. This 2.751" is exactly what is engraved in the end of the Motive Gear pinion so it is spot on.
At this point I went ahead and installed the pinion for the final time as I know the dimension is perfect and no need to test and remove to check for pinion depth like on a non-marked pinion. This is nice but the same results can be achieved by checking pinion depth by contact pattern it just takes a couple of times of installing and removing the pinion to swap shims as indicated by the contact pattern.
I apply a very, very thin layer of grease to hold the carrier shims in place while installing the carrier. This EP-65 grease is extremely tacky and a little goes a LONG way to hold these side shims in place.
Initial installation of the carrier netted zero back lash so I didn't even put the bearing caps on as it had to come back out.
Stay tuned for more pictures.......
Spicer and Richmond used to engrave the pinion to center line dimension in their pinions but most oversees units these days do not mark them. They rely on you as the installer locating the perfect pinion depth based on tooth pattern readings. Time can be somewhat reduced if you know what the ideal pinion depth is supposed to be right out of the box. This is a Motive Gear set and they engraved the ideal pinion depth on the end of the pinion so that was a nice surprise. I also saw indications that the ring and pinion were "run-in" on a fixture as I could see a very faint wear pattern on the set as I removed it from the solvent tank after cleaning the corrosion protection off the new gear set.
I have a couple of different pinion depth tools to locate center but sometimes simpler is better. My Kent Moore kit has a lot of pieces and measurements that must be taken and I have used it mostly when a client brought me a bare new housing and we had no starting point. This was more prevalent back in my racing days when a guy would bring me a bare shortened axle housing but I've also done some with Jeeps lately with getting either new Currie or Dynatrac bare housings brought to me.
A simple check is to use a precision ground bar and lay it across the bearing cap parting line as this is the axle shaft centerline. From there measure to the end of the pinion then subtract the thickness of the bar. My first test I used my setup bearings on the pinion with no shims.
That measurement indicated I needed to install the .025" shim that I had removed from the original pinion. This makes perfect sense because from my experience over the past 30+ years of building rear ends, I have found that the machining tolerances and manufacturing tolerances have been so close and held to such tight tolerances that carrier to carrier or ring and pinion to ring and pinion as well as just tearing down to replace bearings that most do not require any alterations or adjustments in very small increments. My experiences has been the bigger differences are in the housings themselves. I have found when working on a particular rear end housing there will be very very small dimensional changes in comparison to when a new housing in introduced into the equation.
Here I am merely using one of my .500 thick parallels from my milling machine as it is a precision ground tool.
Laying it across the cap separation or parting lines then measuring to the pinion.
3.251" is what I measured on all three attempts.
This could easily be done in your head but for demonstration purposes plug that 3.251" dimension into your calculator.
Measure the bar in which you used for taking the measurement. In this case .500" or 1/2".
Subtract that .500" from the initial measurement.
And this is what your measurement reads. This 2.751" is exactly what is engraved in the end of the Motive Gear pinion so it is spot on.
At this point I went ahead and installed the pinion for the final time as I know the dimension is perfect and no need to test and remove to check for pinion depth like on a non-marked pinion. This is nice but the same results can be achieved by checking pinion depth by contact pattern it just takes a couple of times of installing and removing the pinion to swap shims as indicated by the contact pattern.
I apply a very, very thin layer of grease to hold the carrier shims in place while installing the carrier. This EP-65 grease is extremely tacky and a little goes a LONG way to hold these side shims in place.
Initial installation of the carrier netted zero back lash so I didn't even put the bearing caps on as it had to come back out.
Stay tuned for more pictures.......
- Location
- West Haven, UT
After about 4 iterations of carrier shims I finally landed where I felt backlash was close.
After torqueing the bearing caps on I set up the test indicator and zeroed it out.
Landed at a solid .006" backlash. Just a little tight according to the spec's but I like .006" as an overall target.
I painted up about a half dozen teeth for a pattern check.
This looks pretty good. The pattern face to flank indicates the pinion is centered on the axle centerline, which we set up by dimension and not trial and error on this one. The drive side shows just a hint that maybe a little more backlash would favor a more even contact pattern. This can be misleading at times because there is no torque being applied here. Overall this looks good though.
Coast side looks good and centered.
While those patterns are perfectly acceptable I think I may upon the final assembly move a couple thousandths from the left side to the right which may add maybe another thou or two to the back lash then check the pattern again.
Thanks for looking.
Mike
After torqueing the bearing caps on I set up the test indicator and zeroed it out.
Landed at a solid .006" backlash. Just a little tight according to the spec's but I like .006" as an overall target.
I painted up about a half dozen teeth for a pattern check.
This looks pretty good. The pattern face to flank indicates the pinion is centered on the axle centerline, which we set up by dimension and not trial and error on this one. The drive side shows just a hint that maybe a little more backlash would favor a more even contact pattern. This can be misleading at times because there is no torque being applied here. Overall this looks good though.
Coast side looks good and centered.
While those patterns are perfectly acceptable I think I may upon the final assembly move a couple thousandths from the left side to the right which may add maybe another thou or two to the back lash then check the pattern again.
Thanks for looking.
Mike
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
I don't like posting after Mike. It makes my precision phone mount seem less precise. But anyway, I made a phone mount for the new truck. I hated all of the options people wanted to sell me.
Show me more. I want to do something similar. What's that plate mount to under the dash?
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
It's just 3m double-sided tape. These magnets come with some extra tape in case you screw up. I just used that on the back of the plate.
Vonski
nothing to see here...
- Location
- Payson, Utah
It’s tipped to the left .5mm at the top. Your welcome. …and I need one. 🤔
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
Shaky hands, and that tape is a one shot deal.
- Location
- West Haven, UT
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
If you have a flat enough place to stick this magnet, you don't need a plate like I used. I needed the plate to grip more surfaces on my dash.
NYCEGUY01
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Willard, UT
Tough crowd. I wasn't going to say anything.
Mike would have measured it 3 times and then let us know it was only .3 mm off..Lol
Man im glad he is doing the axle work i stead of me. He is gonna cry when i post up my work on it this spring..
- Location
- West Haven, UT
Thanks JJ, but I think you're selling yourself short. I'm sure it will turn out great and be a fun driver.
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
I measured it with a potato, because the phone will cover it. I removed the eyes first, for safety.
Thursty
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Green River
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
I've used the round ones too, but I like to have the metal plate (the plate that attaches to the back of your phone) under my phone case. The round ones didn't have quite enough mag strength with the case in between. The rectangle mag is strong enough that I can toss my phone at the dash and it will stick. The round mags are half the cost, however.
glockman
I hate Jeep trucks
- Location
- Pleasant Grove
I mounted this in my 4 runner and it's one of my favorite mods. The metal plates blocked inductive charging on my phone.
NYCEGUY01
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Willard, UT
Ive been using these in everything. You can get them for like $15 at walmart. Magnetic and they come with 2 thin metal pieces you can stick on the back of your phones. Ive got one or two mou ted in everything i drive. Even in the old blazer my phones never fell off except once when i drove into a ditch and smashed my knee into it. Lol
Schoche brand.
Schoche brand.
Attachments
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Good project so far
Last edited:
I was peer pressured into trying this preparation thing.
New plastics and number graphics. New air filter. Tightened a bolt I forgot was loose.
New tires and bibs waiting to be installed.
