Which Drivetrain Setup?

[skippy]

I just tubed out the front of my YJ and linked it, swapped in a 60 and went full hydro steering I did everythin on the budget end of the scale and I was still into it almost 4k its stuff like radiators, steering resivoirs, hoses, fittings, electric fans and that kind of crap you generally dont think about that stuff adds up in a hurry.

 

[Cascadia]

I wish I had the money for your rig Mbryson. I didn't think my budget was big enough but I'll probably start planning and buying parts anyways and when money permits I can start to work on it. I'll probably end up building a new house before the buggy. That way I can have a 3rd an 4th car garage to park it in and work on it. Maybe I'll add some extra money on my loan to cover a buggy. Ha.

 

[LT.]

I also think your budget is not realistic but, I am not going to say it can't be done. If you stretch you budget to say $10,000 or maybe even a touch more I think it can be done. If I was going to try this I would look for some sort of a used F Toy buggy chassis. Used Toyota engine, tranny, rebuild a couple of Toyota axles, and try and source all your parts from junk yards. For tires you are gonna have to start searching the classifieds here on RME. Stock type wheels with weld on bead locks or maybe you could find some bead locked wheels on the classifieds here as well. Seats out of a wrecked car or truck and you would be well on your way. Things that are going to be tough to find used are seat belts, wiring, that kind of thing. If you could find someone who is selling a buggy they may still have some of the parts and that maybe the best way to go. I looked at doing this exact thing a year or so ago. I had a lot of the parts I was needing but, I was still forgetting a bunch of things along the way. There is a ton of nickle and dime parts we just don't think about. Wiring, plumbing, joints, beer, that kind of thing.

Can it be done? I think so, but, it is not going to come together very quickly as you are going to have to be patient and wait for good deals. Most of your work is going to be coming from behind a key board looking for parts.

LT.

 

[thenag]

I know this isn't really what you want but this is one of the most amazing budget builds ever, of course Rockmonkey has the skills and tools to keep his cost down. I think he said he was a little over $5k recently. It still took years if I remember. (unlike my xj which took a year but I guess I could have built a buggy for what I have into it...)

It is super capable, cheap, dependable, hell it might still have a/c...

http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?47224-Cheap-Cherokee-Build

I think you could do some kind of a truggy on 37's for under 6k. I wanted to do an s10 with a 4.3L, sm465, 203/205. Toyota would be possible too.

nathan
99 xj with stuff and mine does have a/c...
http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?83436-Nathan-and-Tanja-s-99-XJ-Build-up

 

[thenag]

Maybe I'll start looking into a few built rigs then that someone needs to unload and throw it all into the chassis and link it. What would you guys say a cost to link a buggy front and rear with air shocks would be? Materials wise, not labor.

"must sell baby on the way" is such a great thing if you are buying...

Nathan

 

[Evolved]

its stuff like radiators, steering resivoirs, hoses, fittings, electric fans and that kind of crap you generally dont think about that stuff adds up in a hurry.

No joke here... I bought "The GOAT" for $7500, I traded, sold and upgraded a few parts (Spartan Locker for a selectable front, Raceline Beadlocks for some KMC's and Innerairlocks etc...) and I was still almost 6 grand out of pocket to finish it. And it's still not done (although they never are).

 

[sixstringsteve]

Even if you slowly start accumulating parts over the years, it's still going to cost you $10-15k. Unless you're prepared for that, I wouldn't even start. I'd find a well built rig that you could trailer and have fun on the trails. Who knows where you'll be at in life in 5 years.

 

[mbryson]

I think my first iteration I was as CHEAP into things as I could possibly be. Used my old Suburban powertrain, snagged parts on the cheap for trades and sales and horsetraded around enough. I think I was honestly into it about $7500-8K. I'm quite a bit above that now as I've massaged the rig into what it is today (for better or worse)

 

[Cascadia]

Even if you slowly start accumulating parts over the years, it's still going to cost you $10-15k. Unless you're prepared for that, I wouldn't even start. I'd find a well built rig that you could trailer and have fun on the trails. Who knows where you'll be at in life in 5 years.

Hopefully in 5 years I'll be retired from my construction company. It'd be nice if my in laws retired and they handed over their shoe store for my wife and I to run. That's our dream at least. Then I could build what I wanted.

 

[mattamd_xp]

I've taken 2 years to gather parts for my 1 ton swap TJ and I've got a 5.3, 4l60e, Atlas on the way, D60 kingpin front, 14 bolt rear, used FOA 12" coilovers, and I'm into it for about $13,000 including the brand-new Atlas. It helps if you buy something that you can strip what you want off and then part out. Takes longer, but you can make out with some really cheap parts that way. I made money going from the TJ 4.0 to the 5.3 because I sold the TJ driveline for more than it cost me to put the v8 in. I'm still a couple thou away from finishing, but spreading it out like that it doesn't make as much of an impact as trying to do it all at once.

 

[Marsh99]

22re on propane, TG 4 link rear, 3link front, air shocks, dual cases, on 35" Krawlers....
the axles are TG rock assault but you could keep the stock ones

 

[Cascadia]

Is this for sale or are you just giving me ideas?

 

[Marsh99]

Just ideas...

 

[sixstringsteve]

That thing is sick. Got a link to a build thread?

 

[Cascadia]

Definitely a sweet rig. Wish I still had Angelo, I would be happy with that rig with a buggy chassis.

 

[Coco]

In my opinion, 40" tires really require 1-ton axles (d60, 14b). Anything less and you'll be breaking all the time. Buying a pre-built buggy would save a lot of money, but it sounds like you want to do the building yourself. A buggy is a pretty big first step for building your own rig. It can be done, but it's definitely going to be a learning experience. If you stuck with 35-37" tires I think you'd be able to keep it a lot cheaper and it'd still be plenty capable. I can only speak from my experience with toyotas, but 37's hold up a LOT better than 40's under a toyota. With 40's and tons under a yota, your next weak link becomes the t-case input and output shafts. I think about Rick's little yota on 33's and that thing goes everywhere, and it's still technically street legal. I think a little rig like his could be built for under $8k. It'll still do 90% of the trails in utah. I know you're not asking, but it's fun to dream... if I were to build a buggy I'd do a toyota platform (obviously, I'm pretty biased). I'd do a trail gear 3-link front, 4-link rear (pretty easy for the noob builder to do), and I'd keep the tires at 35-37" max. 35's and you really don't have to worry about much breakage. Robby's rig is a great example: plenty capable, cheap, and still leaf sprung. It won't do 100 MPH in the desert, but it'll crawl all the nasty trails around here, and still be fun on the little ones.

What are your goals for the buggy? Go-fast, or go slow? What trails do you want to build it for? I assume you don't care if it's street legal or not. 1, 2, or 4 seater? Or do you want a KOH buggy for $5k? One thing I learned from Angelo ("81 yota, flat belly, 37s) is that it was so capable that my favorite trails became boring. AF Canyon was nowhere near a challenge. It was kinda pointless. Rattlesnake and constrictor became boring because it went wherever I pointed it. I had to take that thing to Moab or St. George to really push it. Another thing I"ve learned is that you should wheel rigs similar in build to your buddies. If you all have samurais on 31's, you'll all have fun together. If everyone has sami's on 31's and you have a buggy on 40's, it won't be fun wheeling with them. I'm not trying to talk you out of a big buggy, it's just something to think about.

Steve are you ok?? You repeated just about everything you said

But I would have to disagree. Toyota axles can handle (if built) 40-42" tires. I wouldnt go much higher. I really dont think the output will be a weak link. Granted, it is all on drivers style at that point. But a great example is Goose's truck. He may have 1 ton axles, but he still has a dual toyota case.

I was talking to him about if he ever had issues with breaking output/input shafts, and he (if I remember correctly) said he didnt. He did upgraded to the 23 Spline chromolys. He said the only issue he had was his adapter came loose one time if I remember correctly.

Toyota axles are a lot stronger than most think. I know of many guys that are running 40+ on theres. I plan to run atleast 39.5s on my project (when I can find the perfect starter rig, I am planning lightweight flat-tow rig[Samurai])

 

[sixstringsteve]

I stand by what I said. 40's are too much for yota axles. Have people run them without breaking? Sure, for a while. And after you build your front axle up with six shooters, heat-treated r&p, trunion eliminators, and dirty 30/longfields with cromo hub gears and arp steering studs, and arp hub studs, you are well over the cost of a d60 anyway. If I were running 40's, I'd definitely run tons over super beefed up yota axles. Yota axles are strong, very strong, but 40's are pushing it.

Once you go to tons on a yota, the next weak link is the t-case input and output shaft. That's exactly why goose went to 23 spline cro-mo output shafts.

 

[rockreligious]

Toyota axles can be built to hold up to 40's, but lots of work and money...d60 would be cheaper and still stronger at that point.

 

[rockreligious]

Toyota axles can be built to hold up to 40's, but lots of work and money...d60 would be cheaper and still stronger at that point. If I only had a budget of $5000 to spend towards a buggy, I would save, save save, then add my tax return to it until I had $7-8,ooo and buy the most build, best drivetrain rig I could find, and take my time and get all the goodies with little abuse or a project that hasnt been ran yet. then Id go wheel it, dumping a $1000 a year into it every year until it was exactly what I wanted. changing rigs all the time is a good way to never end up with what you want... I did that for years.

 

[zukijames]

steve built yotas weigh alot less than tons..

my opinion there are a few ways to do this for how cheap you want to ... but are you going to be happy with it .. i pieced my rig together with what ever i could find and it ended up costing me money in the long run.. because i kept modifying or re doing things i didnt like.


when i stetched it before moab i linked it front and rear using cheap tractor joints and some free square tube.. joints got loud and clanky .. but my cheap little sami did the 3 climbs i wanted to do.. suicide hill , big hot , tub and heldorado waterfall.

but now its torn apart getting high quality parts .


buggy with 40's should have hydro assist / full hydro( full hydro will make getting good geometry when linking the front easier but not necessary) so just throwing out estimates 300-2000

do you want sticky tires? bald tires ? used tires? bead locks? i got my 37 iroks with lots of tread on bead locks for a grand.. but most guys on here hate iroks.. My girlfriend got her 40 inch maxxis creepy crawler stickys with internal bead locks for 1800? or something close to that


so you could easily spend your whole budget just on steering and tires.. or even just wheels and tires. or you can wait around and find a deal on some used 40's . I have a friend from colorado that lives in moab sorta some times and he picked up a bald set of 39 inch red label cralwers for 125 and just runs cheap wheels. they work great for him..



something really light or small with 35s or 37s could be really fun and possible


i dont know much about fj 80 drive train except the axles.. but i know the axle are awesome .. strong and factory e lockers..

not many will agree with this but have you looked at and land rover..

the pre 96? discos have aluminum v8s good trannys and the strong t case with a 3.3 or 3.5:1 low range from the factory ..

my girlfriend is running 40's with stock motor stock trans stock t case .. and semi built tons detroits front and rear 5:13 gears 35 spline stubs in the front , warn hubs she paid 1900 i think


also are you against just using coils and shocks? cheap way to get it done and not too hard to swap to air shocks or coil overs later down the road.