Learning to weld

[nnnnnate]

Gonna bring this back from the dead.

I should be finished with my 220 sub panel this afternoon and I got a surprise bonus from work so I ended up buying a mig on Monday night. I'm curious about gas and how necessary it is in the initial stages of learning. I intend to spend time laying beads on flat plate like Corbin posted earlier. Would running gas and solid wire be a waste for this kind of practice? My mig came with a sample roll of flux .030 so I'll need to pick up more wire before too long anyway.

 

[blznnp]

It's good to practice and learn all the wires. That way you know how each welds. MIG is a great all around wire, but it isn't suited for much structural. It can be used but it's harder to get a good overall penetration than using a flux core wire, either inner shield or dual shield. The biggest benifits with inner shield is that you can use it outside and not worry about shielding gas blowing away. Where as MIG or dual shield you have to worry about the gas blowing away. But when it comes to MIG, inner shield, dual shield, none of those wires are a waste to learn on and get use to. If you learn without gas first, then go to some gas, you'll appreciate the gas that much more

 

[ozzy702]

I'm currently learning to weld as well, nice to see the progress on here, I'm hopeful that in time I'll be able to lay down some decent welds.

Edit: We have at a Miller 250 at the school I work at and it looks like the kids have destroyed the tip that is currently on it (there was also a tangled ball of wire inside because they keep trying to feed wire through and it wouldn't push past the tip) and there are no replacement trips around. Where is the best place locally to pickup some new tips? Home Depot only has lincoln tips and those look pretty different.

 

[Greg]

I would check with Air Gas, find the model # of the welder and possibly take the beat-up tip for comparison.

 

[blznnp]

Any welding supply store will have tips for that. Either take the old one in or get a model number or brand off of the gun, mainly to make sure it's the one that came with the welder

 

[nnnnnate]

I stopped by US Welding today and asked about shielding gas. I was just trying to get an idea about tank sizes and what they were going to cost. I was told for a "Q" size tank that holds 40 cu ft it would cost $220 empty and an additional $50 to fill with 75/25 argon co2. When I got back to the office I checked online and it seemed to be a fair price for the tank. Is this a good size tank to be getting for a learning hobby-ist? US Welding said that they don't rent this size tank.

 

[Caleb]

One thing to consider with tanks is if you buy, you have to wait around for your tank to be filled every time. If you rent/lease a tank you can just swap them. Can't say on the size, not familiar enough with them and google searches are showing everything for small tanks to good size tanks for q sized tanks. Just make sure it's not too small. Large tanks are nice if you've got them on a cart with your welder.

 

[frieed]

Humphries in American Fork will let you purchase tanks and for a $10 per year fee (+gas cost) will exchange for a full customer-owned bottle.

 

[I Lean]

Not exactly sure on prices, but I have a 120 cf tank and it usually lasts roughly the same amount of time as a 10lb spool of wire.

 

[frieed]

When I got my welder I picked up a full 250cf tank of 75/25 off KSL for $150.
That was almost 2 years ago and It's still almost half full. I will need to get it re-certified before I fill it again though.

 

[blznnp]

I think I have a 100 or 120 cu.ft. tank. I own it out right and I have never had a problem just swapping out the tanks, never had to wait around. I have only gotten it filled once here in utah but have gotten it filled multiple times in WA. I like having the bigger tank. I tend to run out on saturday or sunday and end up not being able to get any more gas till later. It really all depends how much you are planning on welding. That price seems high though to me, I don't think I paid nearly that much, it was 7 years ago but still. There is another place just off of 215, maybe near california ave? might try giving them a call. Last time I checked they were cheapest to swap out the tank. I'll try and get the name. But like frieed did, I would look on KSL for a bigger tank.

 

[UNSTUCK]

Airgas will swap out a customer owned bottle. Been doing it for years. I use a 125 bottle at home and wouldn't go any smaller. But I weld more than most on here I would guess. At work I use 250 size bottles. They are very large, one of those can be bought at arc welding supplies for $315. At least that is my cost. Seemsike a much better deal than what you posted up about.

 

[nnnnnate]

I got the impression that although I was buying that size tank they would swap it out when it needed to be refilled. I don't really want to spend that much money for a tank but didn't really know what to ask and the guy wasn't really offering a ton of suggestions. I'd also prefer to not wait for "mine" to be filled. I basically just told him that I was new and wanted some c25 gas and that I didn't know anything about sizes or anything else for that matter. He showed me a much smaller size bottle that looked close to like a #5 or #10 co2 size and I figured I'd want more than that.

I guess I'll make a few other trips and see what else I can find out. If I drove to AF to lease a tank I don't imagine that anyone in SLC would fill it for me would they? Thats a little far for me to drive for welding gas. For what its worth I have tried looking on KSL for any search terms I could think of and haven't found anything that would work. tank, cylinder, argon, and combinations of it all as well. If you have better lingo let me know and I'll search more there too.

 

[frieed]

If you buy a tank make sure the neck ring has no dealer name stamped into the metal. (may have a name painted on the side though)
I've had some that even said "customer owned". Check for same after a swap since the guys in the back may not know or care.
Different dealers are picky about filling someone else's cylinder, but generally no issues with customer owned (w/wo an immediate swap)

 

[Caleb]

Swapping is fine, depending on the tank. If you buy a nice brushed tank, I don't think you'll want to swap it for some run of the mill shop tank. If you're just getting a regular old painted tank, then sure, swap away. That's why I mentioned it as something to consider, not a "don't do it". In all my years as a welder, I never had a shop that wouldn't swap me tanks if I didn't want to wait around.

 

[UNSTUCK]

What size welder did you get? C2 burns hotter for better penetration but can leave lots of spatter. Adding argon to the C2 helps make a cleaner weld but you loose heat.
I might be willing to sell you my bottle so I can get a bigger one.

 

[nnnnnate]

I bought a Hobart 190. I had read about using co2 and had planned to tinker with that when I fill get my recently acquired co2 tank.

PM me if you want about your argon tank. I'll probably call around tomorrow to check on tank rentals just to get a bigger picture of what rentals cost.

 

[nnnnnate]

I ran out of flux wire while messing around this afternoon in the garage. It was early enough still so I went and picked up some more wire. I went to praxair and since I was there I thought I'd ask about their rates on c25 tanks although I intended to just pick up more flux for the time being. The guy told me they had a promo that ended today to lease a 100 cf tank for 10 years for $150 with the first fill up free. I don't know how much of a deal that is but I ended up going that route after finding out how much it was going to cost to buy a tank.

When I got home I changed up the polarity and got everything hooked back up and immediately did this.


Good thing I picked up a few extra tips while I was there. After adjusting a few things this was what I was able to do. I started with the tacks while making the adjustments before going to the right and working down the plate.


Here is a close up of the last bit I did.


I obviously don't have any idea what I'm doing but it seemed to be going okay. It was a ton easier to see with the gas, I could actually see the puddle which I wasn't able to with flux. I kept trying to think about the sound it was making to try and match Jody's videos. It didn't sound the same regardless of the adjustments I made. I'll have to keep playing with it and see if I can't get it figured out.

 

[nnnnnate]

This is 1/4" plate, any feedback on this?



I also got some tube and cut some 45*s. The wall was thin (cant remember how thin) but it sure was different welding it compared to the 1/4 plate. It didn't seem like I really had a ton of time to move the puddle back and forth, if I did I'd risk burning through the metal. This was especially the case for the outside edge where the metal seemed to be thinnest after the cut. With thinner metal is there still a need to move the puddle around or can you just zip a bead down the seam and be good? I haven't ground down the welds on my tube yet to see how well they clean up. I did buy some tube to build a welder cart here in the next little bit so I was just playing around with cutting angles and welding them. The next thing I need to figure out is how to get things cut and welded and keep corners square. I'd like to build a table to be able to clamp down steel for good corners but I'm just realizing how $$$ thick plate is.

 

[ozzy702]

This is 1/4" plate, any feedback on this?

View attachment 96526

I also got some tube and cut some 45*s. The wall was thin (cant remember how thin) but it sure was different welding it compared to the 1/4 plate. It didn't seem like I really had a ton of time to move the puddle back and forth, if I did I'd risk burning through the metal. This was especially the case for the outside edge where the metal seemed to be thinnest after the cut. With thinner metal is there still a need to move the puddle around or can you just zip a bead down the seam and be good? I haven't ground down the welds on my tube yet to see how well they clean up. I did buy some tube to build a welder cart here in the next little bit so I was just playing around with cutting angles and welding them. The next thing I need to figure out is how to get things cut and welded and keep corners square. I'd like to build a table to be able to clamp down steel for good corners but I'm just realizing how $$$ thick plate is.

With thin metal you'll obviously want less juice and depending on your ability to weld slower feed as well. Use the recommendations for your welder and adjust to your ability. I typically run slower feed (~25% slower) and a bit higher amperage than what the Miller 250 I've been using calls for unless I'm doing really thin stuff.

With tube you'll want to focus the heat on the tube that isn't cut and pull the puddle into the piece of cut tube on the edges where they are thin, same kind of concept as when you weld two pieces of metal that are different thicknesses, more heat on the thicker piece and pull the puddle into the thinner piece. On the edges just weld as normal. I usually flatten the thin parts out with the grinder first so the material is thicker.