Utah Rave Update

Hickey

Burn-barrel enthusiast
Supporting Member
Hey Tigerstripe, It's called "Shock and Awe"
You go in with an overwhelming show of force and it will diffuse potentially violent situations rapidly.

My 8 yearl old wears camo overy day. Not many people seem to care. It's just clothes.

As far as the ACLU....
You are an idiot. :rolleyes:






Where do I sign up for the hippy beating? :cool:
 

TigerStripe40

Arrogant Bastard
Location
Salt Lake City
cruiseroutfit said:
PS, what is wrong with CAMO... do you want them to wear hunter orange? I keep hearing these "oppressed" ravers talking about the military like CAMO that they were wearing, treating them like terrorists.

You hippies hate wasting tax payer money, so why should they sport several different colors... the camo works great :rofl:

They broke the law... some got what they had coming... The ones that left peacefully had NO problems, the ones that tried to be tough, were treated tough. I have read reports from those that were there, they are all so full of propoganda and lies...

Some reported mace and teargas, others admit none was used... they said a girl was raped by an officer, they said they were hit in the heads by the buts of guns... BS. That one video was edited to shoe EXACTLY what they wanted it to show, nothing with a hint of something. But remember, the helicopter circling overhead had a camera rolling the ENTIRE time...

Sue, sue, sue... that will fix America James... :rofl:

You wonder why your tires got knifed, probably a cop you pissed off :rofl:

I am not saying SUE SUE SUE.

What I really think is that laws need to be changed.
Hold people responsible for their actions...
None of this 'hold the bartended responsible for you drunk driving BS'

So, why are you people screaming about the Moab police crackign down on rigs that aren't street legal but are all about the use of excessive force when it comes to busting the hippies.

We don't have any consistancy when it comes to law enforcement.

My poitn here is that they used what I perceive as excessive force when it came to the Rave party (Ravers are not hippies, BTW).

We don't see cops pulling guns on people who drive their modified 4x4's on the street. Modified 4x4's (especially with shackle reversals, spring over axle conversions, saginaw power steering conversions, cut and turned axles, yes, all of that stuff violates the law as it significantly deviates from the original manufactures design) pose more of a threat to public safety than the people at that rave did. They secluded themselves from the public at large. Also, how many 4x4 enthusiast carry guns?

It's inconsistancy in law enforcement, and that's what bothers me.
End of story.
 

TigerStripe40

Arrogant Bastard
Location
Salt Lake City
Hickey said:
Hey Tigerstripe, It's called "Shock and Awe"
You go in with an overwhelming show of force and it will diffuse potentially violent situations rapidly.
My 8 yearl old wears camo overy day. Not many people seem to care. It's just clothes.
As far as the ACLU....
You are an idiot. :rolleyes:
Where do I sign up for the hippy beating? :cool:

I don't resort to name calling.

Please show me the same respect.
 

James K

NO, I'm always like this
Location
Taylorsville, Ut
TigerStripe40 said:
My point here is that they used what I perceive as excessive force when it came to the Rave party (Ravers are not hippies, BTW).
.


can you show me some proof of this?


vehicle laws and the laws that were violated are apples and oranges.


would you have someone who ran a stop sign recieve the same punishment as someone who killed a person?
 

Hickey

Burn-barrel enthusiast
Supporting Member
TigerStripe40 said:
We don't see cops pulling guns on people who drive their modified 4x4's on the street. Modified 4x4's (especially with shackle reversals, spring over axle conversions, saginaw power steering conversions, cut and turned axles, yes, all of that stuff violates the law as it significantly deviates from the original manufactures design) pose more of a threat to public safety than the people at that rave did. They secluded themselves from the public at large. Also, how many 4x4 enthusiast carry guns?
Show me where it says those mods are illegal.
 

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
TigerStripe40 said:
I am not saying SUE SUE SUE.

What I really think is that laws need to be changed.
Hold people responsible for their actions...
None of this 'hold the bartended responsible for you drunk driving BS'

Right, isn't holding the party throwers responsible the same thing as holding the bartenders responsible? Or did you not think about that before you posted because it was totally devistating to your argument? Kids were breaking the law, the law came in, the law won. I've been there, I've gone down for it, I learned my lesson.

So, why are you people screaming about the Moab police crackign down on rigs that aren't street legal but are all about the use of excessive force when it comes to busting the hippies.

I don't know who's screamed about that. I'm in favor of cracking down on all the hill-billies and what not that drive massively illegal rigs on the roads. I do however think it's dumb that they pull over rigs for minor mudflap violations--but I also would think it dumb if the SWAT team was called in because of a permit and there were no othere felonies happening at the event. Things as they are--there were drugs being sold (and not things like pot which, even though I don't partake, I think is completely harmless), underage kids using illegal drugs and alcahol, reports of weapons, reports of previous sexual assaults etc. etc. This is a little more sevier than a traffic violation. Nice argument though.


My poitn here is that they used what I perceive as excessive force when it came to the Rave party (Ravers are not hippies, BTW).

So, you want the police chief to just stroll through a crowd of 3000 hopped up kids who already have a general distaste for the law (I'm sure this isn't hte first time their 'civil liberties' have been violated by the man) to the stage, pull the plug on the turn-tables and simply say 'go home everyone--parties over". Do you think that would have been effective? Have you ever been to a large concert? Short of full SWAT gear and a nuke I wouldn't walk up on stage to try and kill a party with thousands of drugged up (and some not drugged up) kids. Thats grounds for death by glow-stick.


We don't see cops pulling guns on people who drive their modified 4x4's on the street.

If they had guns and drugs and refused to cooporate, you bet your ass they would pull a gun.

Modified 4x4's (especially with shackle reversals, spring over axle conversions, saginaw power steering conversions, cut and turned axles, yes, all of that stuff violates the law as it significantly deviates from the original manufactures design) pose more of a threat to public safety than the people at that rave did.

Granted, lots of vehicular modifications are illegal and do pose a hazard on roads. A greater thread to public safety? Probably not. Realistically, do you think all the kids that 'were using drugs but really weren't' were staying there for the night? What about personal safety? I like the comment in that rave thread that said that we are all stupid for saying someone OD'd on E when, in all reality, it was just a bad mix of E. OHHHH, well, that makes it all better. Since it was some cheap ****ing drug lords bad mix of E that somehow makes it not a problem--god forbid your precious E gets an unfair shakedown in the eyes of the public. But of course, there were no drugs there--except for some bad 'E' which isn't a drug anyways because there were none there. Right.

They secluded themselves from the public at large. Also, how many 4x4 enthusiast carry guns?

I'll give them credit for that cause that was a smart thing to do. I tried to use that arguement once--being responsibly irresponsible. I ended up in jail too.

It's inconsistancy in law enforcement, and that's what bothers me.

But there is no inconsistancy in the stories of the people at the event. You know, if all of the accounts aligned with one another, maybe they would have a foot to stand on. But there are major contradictions in all of the stories--facts that are completely made up, people saying there were no drugs, that there were drugs...people saying there were no drugs yet the person who had OD'd had OD'd on some poor cut of E, no weapons--yet weapons were found (err, 'planted by the military after they beat down the entire party') You may not think there are weapons there--but do you know every person there and what they have on them? There are bad apples everywhere and we all pay the price for them.

It sucks the party was broken up, and it sucks it had to happen that way. But, I wouldn't walk into a crowd of glow-stick toating, j-nco wearing, studded belt weilding, rave dorks without full swat gear and 80 fully trained peace officers--would you?

Cody
 
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CJJ92yj

Registered User
Location
Kearnsville
I can easily see how a person all jacked up on alcohol and drugs could have a tendency to elaborate a little on the truths. Saying things like how the SWAT team swarmed in on them with guns drawn, kicking people, pushing them, beating them with the butts of their guns. It would be easy to "see" that kind of activity when you are taking halucinogens.

What probably happened was a SWAT team entered the premesis clamly and told people to go home. People freaked out because they knew what they were doing was illegal, and started running to get away, tripped on a rock and fell.

BTW, I've seen the video. Looks to me like that is pretty much what happened. Besides, if I was one of those cops, I would want to be prepared. Going unprepared for the situation would be like having the local drug dealer call you to come to a shoot-out, and you showing up with a rock!
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
The real key here is was excesive force used and by who definition?

Of course those at the Rave are going to say so. I do not think I have ever heard anyone busted talk about how nice and polite the police where.

Is there anything wrong with police showing up in large numbers with guns and dogs? Of course not. Their saftey says they must.

I also think the real key here is that the Ravers do not deny the crimes, they simply try to justify them.

Large crowds, drugs and guns are a dangerous combination. (note the guns themselves are not the problem, so if we carry them off-road matters not.)
 

Milner

formerly "rckcrlr"
OMG this is way to funny :rofl: :rofl:
I have not read this thread until now....

Hey Tiger, don't like it, move to Amsterdam, or do something about it.

I am so sick of the "it sould be legal" attitude. :mad2: Guess what IT'S NOT!!!! Just because I think it sould be legal to euthanize anyone with a SUWA membership, doesn't mean I can, and they should just overlook it because they are idiots. Hmmmm, seems like flawed logic to me.

Come spend a week with me or of the LEO's on this board. I bet your perspective will change.

I am all for holding people personally responsible for their actions. (seems I do that for a living) That is EXACTLY what was being done here. They made the poor choice to go to an event that they knew would have drugs, and knew that it was most likely being held illegally. (the whole idea of a Rave is a illegally organized party, with out the restrictions that come with enjoying the music in a club of legetimate venue) Guess what, NOW they are being held responsible for making that choice!

:rolleyes:

Just FYI last I knew all of Ut. County only had 3 dogs between all the agencies and all 3 are drug dogs, not attach dogs. Maybe one of the Happy valley LEO's will chime in....But I doubt it. I would not bother if I was them.
 
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cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
TigerStripe40 said:
...What I really think is that laws need to be changed.
Hold people responsible for their actions...

The law is fine, get a permit and party... And obey the officer or be arrested... pretty simple really.

TigerStripe40 said:
...So, why are you people screaming about the Moab police crackign down on rigs that aren't street legal but are all about the use of excessive force when it comes to busting the hippies.

Because they are hippies... :rofl:

Actually, where have I once complained about the police crackdown on buggies? And you are comparing apples and oranges. Buggy's on the street don't kill innocent people, they don't trash the land, they don't carry guns, and they don't sell drugs to KIDS... Oh yeah, they don't listen to crappy music either. I do think that buggies should have insurance if they are driven on the road, but that is another issue. [/QUOTE]

TigerStripe40 said:
...We don't have any consistancy when it comes to law enforcement.

The law was very consistent. The promoters failed to get the proper permits and ruined the nights of alot of people. Partyers should be solely mad at them. You can't expect the Sheriff to sit back and let kids damage themselves and others in the name of peace...

TigerStripe40 said:
...My poitn here is that they used what I perceive as excessive force when it came to the Rave party (Ravers are not hippies, BTW).

Same thing, different generation IMHO.

TigerStripe40 said:
...We don't see cops pulling guns on people who drive their modified 4x4's on the street. Modified 4x4's (especially with shackle reversals, spring over axle conversions, saginaw power steering conversions, cut and turned axles, yes, all of that stuff violates the law as it significantly deviates from the original manufactures design) pose more of a threat to public safety than the people at that rave did. They secluded themselves from the public at large. Also, how many 4x4 enthusiast carry guns?

It's inconsistancy in law enforcement, and that's what bothers me.
End of story.

You are clueless James... comparing the social consequences of children on drugs and kids with GUNS against spring-overs... get real :rolleyes:
There is a reason carrying a gun and drugs can be a FELONY and having a PS conversion is not even a criminal citation... A soon as I get pulled over by a cop for a FELONY (remember that word James) I expect him to have a gun out. Hell, I have had a gun drawn by many officers in the past, do I expect otherwise, hell no they are humans and have the RIGHT to protect themselves and the interest of others!

Drugs kill millions... shackle reversals just piss off web-wheelers...

BTW:
 

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cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
Cody said:
... But, I wouldn't walk into a crowd of glow-stick toating, j-nco wearing, studded belt weilding, rave dorks without full swat gear and 80 fully trained peace officers--would you?...

:rofl:

Thats too funny... :rofl:
 

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
lol, this reminds me of that South Park episode where the hippies converge on SP for a music festival and they build a big drilling machine to drill through the hippies to the front of the stage to put in a Metallica CD (or something like that) so that all the hippies would leave......classic

Cody
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
Utah County Sheriff Tracy said:
Mr. -----,

I will again respond to you. You start your E-Mail with another erroneous statement of "fact" that you have taken from those who have lied. The Sheriff's Office, and all other police officers involved in the activity in question did not confiscate any phones or cameras. We have "a phone" and "a camera" that were picked up from off the ground when they were abandoned along with the sack full of ecstacy, mushrooms, methamphetamine, cocaine, and marijuana that were found on the ground. Those two items can be returned to the owners if they will come and ask for them.

Please send me a copy of the video that shows the alleged excessive force actions of the officers. The video I have examined, frame by frame in stop motion, shows the officers handcuffing the woman and taking her into custody, no hitting, no kicking was involved. The officers have a knee on her back to keep her from standing up while they place her hands behind her back to handcuff her. The only reason they took her into custody is that she started to kick (assault) them when she was told to leave the area, unfortunately that part of the "event" is not on the video.

You state that you in no way promote illegal activities, nor do I, this venue was awash in illegal possession and sales of illicit drugs from the very start. Before we shut down the party our undercover officers had made numerous purchases of ecstacy, and were told by the so called "security" that they should be careful with any drugs and hide or take them because the cops were coming. I have taken an oath of office to find and prevent criminal activity in this county, and with the knowledge that there were many violations of law occurring at this event, and that the promoter and land owners did not have all the required permits, I shut down the event to prevent further gross violations of law.

The other issue is that those who promoted and coordinated this event have lied about the permit issue. They had one permit, but never did apply for, or receive, the main permit from the County Commission that is required for a mass gathering. Simply, this was an illegal gathering as soon as the numbers exceeded 250 persons. But the land owners who plead ignorant of this requirement did know they needed the County permit, because it was explained to them when we broke up a large gathering three weeks earlier at the same place, that involved the same land owner.

Again, I feel that this response will be a waste of my time simply from the fact that I am part of the evil government and every thing I say will be considered a lie. For your information, I personally accompanied all of the officers to the event so I could be a first hand witness to the actions of all of the officers. My report of these facts is first hand, not second and third hand from those who have an agenda and were arrested or are upset that they were not allowed to continue to break the law with immunity. I was there, were you?


I believe in the un-infringed right of people to assemble peacefully, but it must also be lawful, and that is where I believe that most of those who are complaining differ from my point of view. I do not have an, as you put it, "I am better than you attitude". I have been in law enforcement for over 27 years and have placed my self at the service of the public, I might add to my detriment, and have always held myself accountable to the public for my actions and decisions. If like minded people want to gather and enjoy an evening of music and dance, what ever their taste in music, I am all for it, there is a legal and proper way to do so in Utah County. The promoter and land owners who put on this event are the ones that owe an apology to those who paid to come to a lawful and peaceful event, that type of event was not provided by the responsible parties.

By the way, what place do guns have at a party of this type? Because when we curtailed the first party three weeks ago, we picked four pistols up off of the ground. That is one reason we were anticipating a possible problem, if we found four pistols just lying on the ground, how many were there being carried by others?

I think your characterization that this event has caused a "worldwide stir" is a bit much, but I have heard from many vocal people who will believe anything with out checking the facts carefully and have a preset mind when it comes to the police, choosing to believe that there is no reason that officers might need to subdue some one, or that someone might just physically attack them (as was the case of this woman on the video) for doing their job.

Unlike you, I wish you no ill and hope that you might actually take the time to educate yourself on police matters, and this event in particular, and stop trying to "Monday morning quarterback" this situation.

Respectfully,

Sheriff Tracy

Great Reply!!! :D

Notice the part about 4 guns found at the last rave, no wonder they went in prepared. This guy deserves a pat on the back! :cool:
 

RWH

Let's Roll For Justice
Cody said:
lol, this reminds me of that South Park episode where the hippies converge on SP for a music festival and they build a big drilling machine to drill through the hippies to the front of the stage to put in a Metallica CD (or something like that) so that all the hippies would leave......classic

Cody

\m/ METALLICA \m/

So, you want the police chief to just stroll through a crowd of 3000 hopped up kids who already have a general distaste for the law (I'm sure this isn't hte first time their 'civil liberties' have been violated by the man) to the stage, pull the plug on the turn-tables and simply say 'go home everyone--parties over". Do you think that would have been effective? Have you ever been to a large concert? Short of full SWAT gear and a nuke I wouldn't walk up on stage to try and kill a party with thousands of drugged up (and some not drugged up) kids. Thats grounds for death by glow-stick.
John Wayne Could do it!



I wouldn't give a piss in a bucket if they did tear gas,tazer,maim,arrest, or beat the hippies.... That's what Hippies need is a good ass kickin to knock some sense into em... you can call me what you want for thinking that, i don't care John Waynes my Hero.
 

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
Badger said:
sorry to break the news to you but ravers are not hippies.just because they do drugs they are hippes?heheh your funny

no, it's because they are a large, well organized, outspoken group of young people that are brought together by a shared love of music and/or drugs.

Cody
 
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