UURRRGG tearing sh$# up

[scoutabout]

scoutabout dont mock us.... we have been nothing but nice in this forum....

I'm not mocking you. I'm serious. If you can't tell the difference between being on the trail and being off the trail, get a map and research your wheeling destinations before your actions get them closed (regardless of how inadvertent your destruction is).

XJelmo99,

Don't worry about Scout. Being a royal a$$ is one of his better attributes.

You don't know me, don't pretend like you do. Are you mad because you also got called out for being an uninformed and irresponsible OHV user? Ignorance isn't an excuse when your actions add to the possibility of closure.

Nearly 4 months on board... you're catchin' on

Jared, you guys are doing the right thing. People might throw some comments here and there, but just brush it off... They're more than likely armchair wheelers like frownabout

I can't say much about scoutabout, but Steve Jackson is a good guy.. 82% of the time anyways. 78% of that 82%, Steve is scoutabout.. so you do the math

i kid i kid..

Pfft.

There are a handful of people who hang out on this board who have each spent thousands of volunteer hours working to keep AF Canyon open and reduce the effects of irresponsible and uneducated users. In addition to the handful of hardcore volunteers, hundreds more have contributed their valuable time to service projects in the Canyon over the years.

All of this hard work is negated by idiots who won't spend a few minutes to look at the FREE map that is available at the fee station. Apologizing later, saying you didn't know, or claiming that others do it won't affect the outcome when your actions are used to justify closure.

So yeah, I'll call out stupid behavior. Do that **** in front of me, and you'll be receiving a ticket in the mail whether it's your first time or not.

For every one guy that gets set straight (either on a forum of responsible users like RME or through person-to-person contact) there are another hundred idiots who never get the message.

Do something serious as restitution. Don't fill one bag of trash on your way to Forest Lake. Stop and sanitize (dig out the firepit, collect the TP, gather the trash, etc) dispersed sites along the main road and other busy areas. Bring ten friends to the next NPLD project (9/27 @ 9:00 AM) in AF Canyon. Educate yourself on responsible 4x4 recreation and spread the message.

This **** makes me feel like I'm wasting my time.

 

[Xploderkid97]

This weekend, Summit Machine is hosting one of their trailrides. Go to it, meet many. Mike is solid gold, good guy.

thanks for the invite, im sorry im gonna miss it, like i said i will be in moab, unless it is down there, then i would love to go! if not, i will definately be at the next one. Whether wheelin or service project, i have been to several and love the sport and would like to keep doing it!

 

[xjelmo99]

Pfft.

There are a handful of people who hang out on this board who have each spent thousands of volunteer hours working to keep AF Canyon open and reduce the effects of irresponsible and uneducated users. In addition to the handful of hardcore volunteers, hundreds more have contributed their valuable time to service projects in the Canyon over the years.

All of this hard work is negated by idiots who won't spend a few minutes to look at the FREE map that is available at the fee station. Apologizing later, saying you didn't know, or claiming that others do it won't affect the outcome when your actions are used to justify closure.

So yeah, I'll call out stupid behavior. Do that **** in front of me, and you'll be receiving a ticket in the mail whether it's your first time or not.

For every one guy that gets set straight (either on a forum of responsible users like RME or through person-to-person contact) there are another hundred idiots who never get the message.

Do something serious as restitution. Don't fill one bag of trash on your way to Forest Lake. Stop and sanitize (dig out the firepit, collect the TP, gather the trash, etc) dispersed sites along the main road and other busy areas. Bring ten friends to the next NPLD project (9/27 @ 9:00 AM) in AF Canyon. Educate yourself on responsible 4x4 recreation and spread the message.

This **** makes me feel like I'm wasting my time.

scout...your right i hate to say it but i agree, you know i may only be 17 but i have grown up around all of this..i realize how badly everyone needs to grow up and pick up after themselves!!! its rediculous!! i personally fold down my back seats almost everytime i go and i try to have it full of trash, mine and others that i find.
I have been to moab ejs everyyear since i was born cause my dad was down their with six states....i just recently got into crawlin when i turned 16 but i love it, it is what i live for! i will do anything to keep doing it....and i really do wish i knew as much as you do about all this...but i dont..im a beginner...but as for stayin on the trail i do it everytime i go out...i see people out their goin off the trail and yeah it pisses me off...

but in the end i dont think you need to call names or anything to that sort...i have already planned cleanups...i have two planned so far...tomorrow it looks like im goin alone...my sister has work and scott has work..but i will do what i can...but scout i just think your going over the top...we realize it was wrong..and yeah they should have read the map that was pretty stupid not to but how about we stop bashin eachother...whats the point its not getting you anywhere we all love one thing..and thats wheelin...now lets act our ages and do what we need to.

Thanks, Jared

 

[scoutabout]

but in the end i dont think you need to call names or anything to that sort...i have already planned cleanups...i have two planned so far...tomorrow it looks like im goin alone...my sister has work and scott has work..but i will do what i can...but scout i just think your going over the top...we realize it was wrong..and yeah they should have read the map that was pretty stupid not to but how about we stop bashin eachother...whats the point its not getting you anywhere we all love one thing..and thats wheelin...now lets act our ages and do what we need to.

Thanks, Jared

Going wheeling and calling it a clean-up is not planning a clean-up. Get 10+ people (or better yet, 100+) out for the exclusive purpose of picking up trash, and then you can say you've planned a clean-up. My "favorite" types of "clean-ups" are where someone hits a trail and says they'll pick up trash. We should all be picking up trash everytime we're on a trail, that's not a special occassion. A clean-up project is one specifically intended for removing trash, not wheeling and picking up trash along the way. With all your experience and exposure to the cause, you should know this already. It's never too late to learn, and it's never too late to start. Make your actions from today forward define you and your involvement in keeping trails open for future use.

 

[SAMI]

Going wheeling and calling it a clean-up is not planning a clean-up. Get 10+ people (or better yet, 100+) out for the exclusive purpose of picking up trash, and then you can say you've planned a clean-up. My "favorite" types of "clean-ups" are where someone hits a trail and says they'll pick up trash. We should all be picking up trash everytime we're on a trail, that's not a special occassion. A clean-up project is one specifically intended for removing trash, not wheeling and picking up trash along the way. With all your experience and exposure to the cause, you should know this already. It's never too late to learn, and it's never too late to start. Make your actions from today forward define you and your involvement in keeping trails open for future use.

Pretty short notice for him, or even you to get 10+ people on the trail this weekend for any service activity IMO. We all see your point here Steve, but you need to lighten up a little. He's doing what he can with what he's been given. Maybe he'll plan a slightly more effective one with a bit more time to prepare, but for now he'll do what he can with some trash bags and his two hands. Are you in town this weekend? If so, it sounds like Jared could use a hand.

BTW, there is a differrence in a 'clean-up' and a per say, 'service project'... Where there might be more of a maintanence type activity engaged in... Wherein you might need larger numbers.

 

[Cody]

It's never too late to learn, and it's never too late to start. Make your actions from today forward define you and your involvement in keeping trails open for future use.

So is it ok to learn from experience?

Everyone has to learn somewhere and most people learn from experience. He made a mistake and is trying to make it right, or at level out his moral scale so to speak. You're absolutely villifiing him--like your personal crusade against a 17 year old KID that doesn't know any better. Where you sooo much more responsible when you were 17? Would you be able to sit here and take all of this in without being extremely defensive? Somehow I doubt your life would hold up to much inspection from the moral microscope when it really comes down to it so cut the kid some slack.

When I was a kid, I rode my motorcycle wherever I wanted because I didn't know any better. Now I do. Everyone starts somewhere Steve, and unfortunately the only person that popped out of the womb only to land in a crystal home on the moral high ground of land use is yourself. The rest of us will probably make some bad judgment calls based upon lack of education and/or experience at some point and must learn from it. If those that don't learn from it that we really need to be mindful of.

So, instead of treating this kid to the entire massengill treatment, why don't you use your knowledge and experience to help the kid out? Show him the right way? Be sort of a land use mentor and constructively help him right his wrong and be a better steward of the land? Do you honestly think the best approach here is to make the poor kid loath the personalities that are in charge of the very organization he is being asked to support? A kid that more than likely knows tons of young people that are getting into the sport that we love and could almost certainly influence and teach them responsible land use--if only people would be accepting of his LACK of experience.

No, it's definitely much easier to throw him under the scout and drive over him a few times.




hey kid, sorry about calling you kid 50 times. But you deserve it

 

[Kris K]

So is it ok to learn from experience?

Everyone has to learn somewhere and most people learn from experience. He made a mistake and is trying to make it right, or at level out his moral scale so to speak. You're absolutely villifiing him--like your personal crusade against a 17 year old KID that doesn't know any better. Where you sooo much more responsible when you were 17? Would you be able to sit here and take all of this in without being extremely defensive? Somehow I doubt your life would hold up to much inspection from the moral microscope when it really comes down to it so cut the kid some slack.

When I was a kid, I rode my motorcycle wherever I wanted because I didn't know any better. Now I do. Everyone starts somewhere Steve, and unfortunately the only person that popped out of the womb only to land in a crystal home on the moral high ground of land use is yourself. The rest of us will probably make some bad judgment calls based upon lack of education and/or experience at some point and must learn from it. If those that don't learn from it that we really need to be mindful of.

So, instead of treating this kid to the entire massengill treatment, why don't you use your knowledge and experience to help the kid out? Show him the right way? Be sort of a land use mentor and constructively help him right his wrong and be a better steward of the land? Do you honestly think the best approach here is to make the poor kid loath the personalities that are in charge of the very organization he is being asked to support? A kid that more than likely knows tons of young people that are getting into the sport that we love and could almost certainly influence and teach them responsible land use--if only people would be accepting of his LACK of experience.

No, it's definitely much easier to throw him under the scout and drive over him a few times.




hey kid, sorry about calling you kid 50 times. But you deserve it

I totally agree!

Sad to say but this type of attitude by some has kept me from joining U4. Yeah I know that just becuse of some peoples attitudes I shouldn't judge the whole orginization. I'm sure I'll join sometime.

 

[kbjames]

You don't know me, don't pretend like you do. Are you mad because you also got called out for being an uninformed and irresponsible OHV user? Ignorance isn't an excuse when your actions add to the possibility of closure.

Scout,

By all means continue the tirades and continue to add to your ass-hat legend.

In light of your continuing to bag on this guy, even though he's going up there tonight to do his own personal service project speaks volumes about your curmedgeonly and piss-poor attributes.

My guess is this site will continue to grow, inform, and educate in spite of your douche-bag comments.

 

[Greg]

Stop the personal attacks guys, I know this is a emotional subject but please leave the attacks out or the thread will get locked down.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Sad to say but this type of attitude by some has kept me from joining U4. Yeah I know that just becuse of some peoples attitudes I shouldn't judge the whole orginization. I'm sure I'll join sometime.

Sorry but that is just completely f-in lame to say. Big surprise as I remember you saying it year ago too One of these days Utah's public lands will be worth $10, right?

I'm quitting RME because there are a couple douche bags that hang around here and by some supernatural affair I'm forced to read what they write.

I'm moving from Sandy because there are some ass wipes down the street that don't wave to me and thank me for being in their neighborhood.

I'm leaving Utah because Rocky Anderson lives here. Need I expand?

Get real, honestly. Humans each have their opinions, and the copious amount of hours Steve has donated to the U4WDA over the years entitle him to vent a bit IMO. Why don't you quit being a wall-flower and see how your attitude changes? Apathy, gotta love it!

You don't know the slightest f-in thing about U4WDA other than the preconceived notion you've been formulating for the past 3-4 years based on the OPINIONS of RME members that happen to be associated with U4WDA too. News-f-ing-flash! Scoutabout is not the President of U4WDA anymore hasn't been for several months now. On top of that the majority of U4 BOD members are not even active here on RME, guess their actions and opinions are a waste of your time to investigate, afterall if one dude on RME made a good case for some old fashioned bandwagon style U4-hate, why not hop on?

Sorry to pick on just your comment but it struck a nerve. Apathy is a *****, and hearing apathetic members ***** about the bad attitude of burned out and overworked VOLUNTEERS is absolute bull-**** IMO.

All of you that are waiting for the right day to join U4WDA, the day that the person you dislike is gone. F-k you and your $10. Thanks for the support over the years. Reassuring.

Disclaimer: I am no longer a BOD member of U4WDA either. No point, a lost cause when our usergroup is disbelievingly apathetic and human resources are entirely absent. Threads and comments like this further cement my decision.

 

[Cody]

I've always given Steve credit for having his heart in the right place, and I've always thought that a slight adjustment in his approach, combined with his fervor could yield better results on a larger scale. I don't think anybody is discounting his dedication, but rather his attitude. Whenever people have given any type of feedback (and admittedly much of it has been as much destructive as contructive) the response has always been "well if you don't like it, lets see you get involved and do any better" which I think isn't the best way to handle it....IMO.

But still, even though there were some people that kind of struck on off cord with me when I used to attend board meetings, it hasn't stopped me from continuing to be a member and attending as many functions as possible throughout the year. I'm a proud member of U4

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I've always given Steve credit for having his heart in the right place, and I've always thought that a slight adjustment in his approach, combined with his fervor could yield better results on a larger scale.

Agreed for the most part, that said Steve's approach apperently worked, memberships were up nearly 10'x over the last 20 years of **** eating grins and feel goods. Really its a non-issue, he is no longer a U4WDA BOD member and the majority of the current U4WDA BOD members are fairly inactive here on RME, I'm sure all the Kris K's of Utah will start joining in flocks with the news (several months old btw). With all the "attitudes" out of the picture poor Meat's gonna have his hands full processing new memberships

the response has always been "well if you don't like it, lets see you get involved and do any better" which I think isn't the best way to handle it....IMO.

I'm sure they are looking for the better way still. I tried, it always ended with apathetic users making excuses for themselves or worse your placing fault on U4WDA. Steve's approach was disregarded by many at times, including myself, sadly at the end of the day and the constant laziness of the majority of our sport/hobbies members, its pretty hard to keep a cheery attitude in the face of rampant closures and zero help.

But still, even though there were some people that kind of struck on off cord with me when I used to attend board meetings, it hasn't stopped me from continuing to be a member and attending as many functions as possible throughout the year. I'm a proud member of U4

And for that I applaud you. I'll always be a member, at worse they are keeping the name of responsible recreation in the ears of some users. Worth every penny IMO.

There is a reason SUWA is so successful at damning the motorized recreation within our state, they have a plethora of volunteers and members of their perceived community willing to get involved.

 

[Stephen]

There is a reason SUWA is so successful at damning the motorized recreation within our state, they have a plethora of volunteers and members of their perceived community willing to get involved.

It's so much easier to spin guilt and to demonize the other side. If we had 1%, literally, of the people who use public lands for mechanized recreation actually helping organizations like U4, we would outnumber SUWA 10:1. But we don't. So we have the few who try, sometime in fits and spurts, but they try. And to see those who try get reamed by the people who they are making sacrifices for; well thats just not right.
I think at this point in time, if you 4-wheel in Utah and you are not a member of U4, you suck. If you disagree with their policies or methods, join, go to a board meeting and make your voice heard. If you don't, shut the **** up, sell your rig and take up knitting.
I've been involved with U4 for 7+ years now. I've been a board member in good standing and bad. Sometimes I've been able to give my all, sometimes I've had to default on a commitment because something else (like school or work) has to come first. But the point is that I try. Thats all U4 has ever asked of the community.

 

[Cody]

I realize that membership really went up under Steve's watch. What it seems to me (and I may be way off) is that we've somewhat hit the limit of grass roots marketing and that in order to take it to the next level, a new approach has to be considered. For a broader audience a more accepting approach is needed. The masses won't join out of guilt and shame, they want to feel like they are making a difference. By guilting people into anything, you only get the minimum commitment in order for them to slide off the radar.

 

[Stephen]

I realize that membership really went up under Steve's watch. What it seems to me (and I may be way off) is that we've somewhat hit the limit of grass roots marketing and that in order to take it to the next level, a new approach has to be considered. For a broader audience a more accepting approach is needed. The masses won't join out of guilt and shame, they want to feel like they are making a difference. By guilting people into anything, you only get the minimum commitment in order for them to slide off the radar.

Re-branding and marketing U4 is something that I know has been on the table for a long time. Seth has done a stellar job with graphics and the Compass, but I don't think that anyone on the board really has much marketing experience. I tried my hand at PR for awhile, but I had very little success with the media because there was no concise message that they cared to hear. I started to come up with some ideas, but then work got busy and I decided to go back to school, so by by time!
Next up is the money needed to take an organization above grassroots marketing. U4 has it, but getting it released for something like that is a difficult sell to some board members. If you have ideas, Cody, I think that U4 would love to hear them!

 

[Kiel]

The bad thing about this whole issue, is that Steve takes AF canyon very seriously. He is responsible for a big chunk of the projects that have gone on the last couple years, more volunteer involvment up there then ever, and increased trail exposure. So literally this kid sh1t in steve's backyard. Granted steve is rubbing his face in it after he caught him lol, but we might all do the same. I'm glad the guy is at least on here and trying to do soemthing about it, but the fact is, that due to young nature of his club this is the way they act.

 

[lostsamurai]

Sorry off subject a little, It seems to me that if standing up for your wrongs gets you nailed to the cross less of these younger unexperianced wheelers will be willing to come forward the next time something like this comes up, attacks like that are not only pointless but rude, im sorry but if i came forward and admitted my mistake and got my $%^ jumped for not being able to put together a 100+ "clean up" id prolly keep my mouth shut the next time! And besides with the cost of everything now days you have to combine a wheelin trip with a cleanup, who the hell can afford to do both at seperate times, ibesides its better than the 90% who dont ever clean up the trails and call themselves "good 4 wheelin contributers". Sheesh give the kid a break, he stood up admitted guilt and promptly scheduled a clean up, i think this has turned into a positive result, from a poor descision. Sorry for being off subject as for u4wda i dont have much to say as i have payed my 10 bucks got a sticker and never attended a meeting or planned clean up, i always clean up on my own, and for now that will have to be ok

 

[Tacoma]

Thank you Lost Boyz for taking steps in the right direction. Help out on National Public Lands Day, and make it a POINT to adopt some kind of stringent land-use ethics in your club's reason for existing. If you don't take a little bit of a stand (at a minimum), you will soon have no place to wheel at all. As a former East-Coaster, I can tell you that it sucks having public land on lockdown, and it does not take much.

Yes, Steve is an ass sometimes. But he feels that strongly about the topic. Don't let that get in the way of hearing what he is saying, which is basically: Sh*t or get off the pot. This issue takes commitment to doing the right thing, and educating those you can. ALL THE TIME!!! Do you care or don't you? It doesn't take much to bone up on the issues, and even less to look at the freakin' trailhead signs. So WTF. Do it or don't, you'll be on the side of access if you act, or on the side of closure if you do nothing-- there are no two ways about it.

As for everyone claiming they'd join U4WDA if only all the a-holes were gone, well, I don't have much to say about that. It's a BS excuse. You all spend more than $10 on random garbage every week, and you won't give it to U4 because you don't like someone? PETTY BS. I'm not in love with everyone in the U4WDA (though in the vein of this post, there isn't ANYONE that I have enough disagreement w/to even call it "a beef"-- they are all involved and I can dig that), but what the hell! U4WDA is Utah's access group, and with the help they could be getting from EVERY MEMBER OF RME, and BRC, USA-ALL, United, etc, we COULD actually make a difference....

... or we could get lame-ass excuses for not adding your name to the list. The Powers That Be don't give a rat's ass that you do trail work on your own, either-- they like to see the big numbers in the organization that cleans up the trails. So hate everyone that's a member, but for f**k's sake, send in the $10!! sheesh

 

[xjelmo99]

The bad thing about this whole issue, is that Steve takes AF canyon very seriously. He is responsible for a big chunk of the projects that have gone on the last couple years, more volunteer involvment up there then ever, and increased trail exposure. So literally this kid sh1t in steve's backyard. Granted steve is rubbing his face in it after he caught him lol, but we might all do the same. I'm glad the guy is at least on here and trying to do soemthing about it, but the fact is, that due to young nature of his club this is the way they act.

I'm guessing scout is steve...

Steve I did no wheeling at all i drove 5 mph watching for trash up the canyon road....stopped at every peice of paper and wrapper.... and stopped at every campsite occupied or not.

i then went up the dirt road on the way to forest lake and stopped at all those campsites occupied or not, and picked up trash, I even got bags and cans out of the river...I got soaked.

This was most definetly NOT a wheelin trip..

what is the way we act? Ive been around this long enough to know what is right and wrong and the right thing IMO was to go up there and clean up and help out.

i just got back from the cleanup, it was disgusting, i picked up diapers, human waste, (shi*) and USEEDDDD Condoms and alot more

I wanna make this clear i did not sh1t in steves backyard, I was not wheelin with them when all this went on, steve i totally respect you after hearin the good things and all you have done for af canyon, but I ask you to please not bash on me for not having a 10 + cleanup...I took work off today to do this.

I have only known about this incident since wednesday i think it was, but i tried my best to do what i could do...i filled 6 bags and i will be going up again after the weekend to pick up everyones trash from camping over the weekend


I have pictures and will be postin later....just basically pictures of all the trash right before i dumped it...



Thanks, Jared

 

[Tacoma]

Good job, Jared. Carry on.